Raiders of the Lost Church

No Church on Christmas Sunday: A Poem

2011-12-22T20:36:00.000-08:00

T'was the Sunday of Christmas, when all through God's house

Not a preacher was stirring, not even his spouse;

The choir robes were hung in the closet with care,

Little hope that the singers soon would be there;

The saints were all home in their casual threads,

Presents from Santa filling their heads;

The deacons, relieved, free now to nap,

Hoping no one comes to worship just by hap,

When out in the lot there arose such a clatter,

No church member there to see what was the matter.

A two wheeler pulled in as quick as a Flash,

Since no cars were there, he avoided a crash.

The tattoo on his neck, he tried not to show

Gives the impression of a man whose destiny is woe,

When, what to his bloodshot eyes should appear,

A small sign that reads, “Christmas is not here”

Motorcyclist was he, so rough yet so quick,

He knew in a moment, this wasn't a trick.

More rapid than a Harley, his transgressions they came,

He shouted, and cried, and he called them by name;

"Now, Heroin! Now, Booze! Now, Lust and some Hash!

Oh snorting! Oh fighting! And stealing hard cash!

To the top of the steeple! To the fellowship hall!

He cried, ' Go away! Go away! Go away all!'"

A life so destroyed, fearing he may die,

His sins, with no obstacle, mount to the sky,

And so to God's house for a remedy he flew,

The advice of his aunt, the only family he knew.

And then, in a twist, he heard in his head

The familiar voice of the prince of the dead.

“What are you thinking? There's no turning around,

For someone like you who's sins do abound.

Your dressed in a suit from your head to your foot,

Where are your chains, your leather, your boots?

The skull and crossbones you wore like a plaque,

That's who you are... you can always come back.

Look at yourself! You look like a fool!

Everyone knows Christmas on Sunday's not cool!”

The man scratched his head, as this seemed so odd,

Wasn't Christmas explained in the Word of God;

He hung his head low as he stood in defeat?

“I came here expecting the Savior to meet?

In a change of his mind, with this voice in his head,

Now believing his sins were nothing to dread.

“They speak of a Word that, when spoken, will work,

But close down their doors, their duties they shirk,

He sprang to his bike in judgmental dismissal,

And away he departed, as quick as a missile.

A sarcastic refrain as he rode out of sight,

"A church closed on Christmas Sunday? This just can't be right!"

Reverend David Wilkerson 1931-2011

2011-04-28T09:39:00.000-07:00

A very rare post here. Reverened David Wilkerson tragically passed away yesterday and since I have mentioned his ministry many times on this blog I thought I would share a few thoughts. Here are a few.

Teen Challenge. Our church just a few weeks ago had the local Teen Challenge choir come and sing. What a tremendous blessing they brought to our church, as they always do. It's amazing to think how one man's vision launched a ministry that has helped so many people.

Reverence for ministry. As a pillar in the faith Dave demonstrated to us what pulpit ministry should resemble. As a herald of God he behaved like one. Dressed like one. Spoke like one. In a time when the church has become a showcase for relevance, irreverence and pragmatic phoniness David's example will sorely be missed.

Godly courage. David wasn't afraid to be unpopular. He confronted the gangs of New York City with the truth. He also confronted the Religious leaders with the truth. He confronted Christian rock music in his book Set the Trumpet to thy Mouth and challenged many others. I am sure this didn't make him popular with many. He wasn't popular with me when my Dad gave me the book while I was consuming countless hours of Christian rock. Now the church is paying the price for ignoring his message. We've gone from singing Highway to Heaven to Highway to Hell.

Of course these are only my thoughts. If your reading this and have some thoughts of your own feel free to leave a comment.

Marching Orders for a Backslidden Church (Phil Johnson | Shepherd's Conf...

2010-06-18T11:12:00.000-07:00

It is Finished

2010-04-08T14:43:00.000-07:00

We watched this on Good Friday. Worth the ten minutes, trust me.

The Temple Veil

2010-04-02T19:26:00.000-07:00

In my humble opinion the greatest miracle in the Bible is the tearing of the Temple Veil. Perhaps it seems natural that the earth would shake,the rocks split and the graves open when Jesus gave up the ghost. But what happened to the veil really has no natural explanation.

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom—Matthew 27:50-51

The veil wasn't just your typical bed sheet. It was massive. Let me try to put it in perspective. I recently needed to clean out my Wife's parents house. After house sales and multiple garbage pickups there was still almost 1ton of stuff that needed to be moved. A large U-haul full. It took me a 1/2 day to load, over an hour to dump. The best was 10 80 pound bags of concrete. By comparison the veil weighed over 300 tons. It was huge, 60 ft high, 30 feet wide, 4 inches thick. 300 priests were needed to carry it. Legend has it that horses pulling on each end couldn't tear it. Only a miracle, a deliberate act of God could have done to the veil what happened to it over 2000 years ago in Jerusalem.

So what does this mean for me and you? Let's not forget the duties of the high priest. He previously was only able to pass through the curtain, with much fear, once a year to offer atonement for the sins of the people. The very instant Jesus dies, not only is the sacrifice accepted but the curtain is destroyed. Not a slight tear, or a corner removed, but God tears it apart. An impossible repair. God wants to make it perfectly clear that we can approach Him. Not looking from afar, not approaching shaking and trembling with fear, not irreverently, but with boldness. For sinful people like you and me, to approach a Holy God, and live to talk about it, is truly a miracle. There is no natural explanation.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which be hath consecrated for us, through the, veil, that is to say, his flesh—Hebrews 10:19-20.

The Sword of the Spirit

2010-03-05T06:16:00.000-08:00

This story caught my attention. An angry and drunk mother charges through a elementary school brandishing a sword looking for a fight. Now this is taking school conflicts to a 'whole nother level'. My only question for this lady would be where did she get the sword? I mean, a sword isn't exactly the weapon of choice these days. Think about it, unless you're a ninja or a Civil War reenactor what possible reason would there be to carry a sword? Not only that, is it even possible to be trained how to use one today? It has to be a dying art. Look in the Yellow Pages under sword handling and you get nothing. I know nothing about sword handling but I'm pretty sure you just don't wave it through the air all willy-nilly like this mother did. Someone innocent is bound to get hurt, including the sword handler. Training is essential.

Ephesians 6:17 ....... and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God.

In Ephesians chapter 6 we get a description of the armor of God. The belt of truth, breastplate of righteousness, shoes of peace, shield of faith, helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit. Perhaps you never realized this but only one part of God's armor requires any skill to use. The sword of the Spirit. All the other armor you just put on. You put on the helmet. You put on the belt. You put on the shoes. You put on the breastplate. You put on the shield. But the sword, to be used effectively you can't just put on. For the sword to be an effective part of the armor of God it must be used skillfully with training. If it's not used skillfully it becomes a weapon that can do something it wasn't intended to do. But when used correctly the sword becomes a weapon that completes and becomes a mighty force of the armor of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

If I may let me offer a some tips and expose a few common mistakes that I have noticed when it comes to handling the word of God

The word of God wasn't intended to be a constant weapon against ourselves. True, it judges the intentions of the heart, and we should start with our own heart, but too many times we pound away at ourselves. If the word exposes poor intentions make the correction. If we keep coming to the Word and find ourselves, time after time, leaving condemned, we are using the Word incorrectly. Do not use the Word as a constant weapon on yourself!!
Be patient with the Word. This is a common movie scene. Tensions are high with opponents packing heat. Rules of engagement were given before the meeting, not to shoot until a certain time. A nervous agent, usually the one everyone hates, jumps the gun, shoots before the right time and before you know there is room full of dead people. And then we find out later that, lo and behold, the bloodbath could have been avoided because everyone was ready to cooperate. So please don't start shouting scripture verses at every Jehovah's Witness and Mormon you meet. Don't answer every problem you hear with, "God works all things for the good". Be patient, keep your sword in it's scabbard until the right time. Keep your sword sharp. Using it frequently, when not necessary, will dull it.
Study, study, study. The more I study the Word the more I find how little I know. I can't emphasize this enough. Each bible verse has a context, written at a specific time, addressed to a specific group of people, addressing a particular problem. When we gather all those facts we are then ready to try to understand what is being said then we can engage in battle.
Remember who our enemy is. Let's not forget Satan is the enemy we are fighting. Jesus used the Word a number of times against Satan in the desert. Satan knows the Word too. If there is a situation that requires us to use the Word and we use it correctly Satan knows he is no match, he'll run. Even in our conflicts with our brothers and sisters ultimately Satan is a player in the situation. If we hold grudges and maintain bitterness in our hearts the battle become personal. Remember it's a spiritual battle.

There are a few tips, there are many others. Let's always use our swords with skill or someone is likely to get hurt.

An example of hologram technology

2010-03-02T20:30:00.001-08:00

Here's what I'm talking about.

Pastor Hol O. Gram

2010-03-01T20:49:00.000-08:00

Somewhere in my ROTLC archives I have a post, that, well, dare I say could be called prophetic. At least what I predicted several years ago is close to becoming a reality. I have it stored on an old hard drive, perhaps I'll dust it off and boot it up. Nevertheless, it was one of my earlier posts, and the problem I basically addressed was the church's use of technology. I don't believe that technology in itself is a problem (although I do believe some mediums are irredeemable, is irredeemable a word?) but the use of technology without restraint, or wisdom is what I addressed. At the time, multi-site video venues were crawling out of their infant stage and becoming more and more accepted by the church. Now video venues are commonplace, there is probably a video venue "church" within a 100 mile radius of anyone reading this post. But the growing popularity of video venues wasn't my prediction. My prediction was the church wouldn't stop with video technology, but pursue higher forms of technology in it's seemingly never ending pursuit to innovate and "do church".

Let me cut to the chase, I predicted that robots would replace the preacher. My argument was that since robot technology has advanced so much that a robot can be built almost indistinguishable from an actual person, they would be prime candidates to be programmed to deliver the Word. Robots could actually accomplish the task so much better then video, at least that's what I argued. I also took it a step further and pointed to the slippery slope the innovators were on. I argued, while using the same reasons the innovators used to defend video, that robots could solve all problems and replace human preachers all together. If the technology is available, why not use it? Of course most of the comments I received were negative, I hit a little too close to home.

So here we are 5 years later and I find this, Hologram Church. And if you want to see the possibility of hologram technology for the church, look at this picture. The church innovators are looking into it. Soon coming to a church near your, Pastor Hol O. Gram, not to be confused with Rev. Billy Graham. Pastor Holo is a great preacher, just don't ask him to lay hands on you in prayer.

Not quite robots yet, I know, but we're getting close, aren't we? For the record I have no idea if this technology has yet replaced any video venues. And to be honest, if the powers that lead the church feel the need to use video technology they might as well just use the hologram technology. It's better. And like I said five years ago why not just use robots? Robots are better then holograms. Ok, calm down, I'm sure they can make the robot look just like your celebrity preacher. I'll talk about it again in 5 years, Lord willing. During that time if anyone wants to actually discuss the WISE use of technology in the church, let me know.

Ed Young Jr., Fellowship Church

2010-02-18T09:36:00.001-08:00

A local news station in Texas did a piece on Ed Young Jr. recently, you can view it here. Here is the response from Ed, and his directors. This is definitely a "lost church" moment, I should have some comments coming by Saturday. There is so much in this story I anticipate it may be a long post.

A great explanation of the Trinity

2010-02-10T08:32:00.001-08:00

Near the end Ravi makes an excellent illustration of the Trinity. Worth the 10 minutes.

Reaching the culture, JUST DO IT

2010-02-09T09:39:00.001-08:00

If you're reading this you probably do one or more of the following on a regular basis. Eat, sleep, go to the store, watch TV, drink coffee, make a phone call, drive your car, listen to music, go to church, take a nap (very spiritual BTW), go to the post office, check your e-mail, pray, take care of your pet, walk to the mailbox, walk the town dressed in colonial attire carrying a lantern and declaring the time followed by "all is well" every hour. If you do any of those things, ok maybe not the last one, you're qualified to minister in our "contemporary" culture. Thank me, you can now cancel your reservations to the latest cool church conference you registered for. I also saved you between $79-$239. Your welcome.

Sometimes we make simple things so complicated. Let's not try and reinvent the wheel here people. If your breathing air, haven't secluded yourself in your humble abodes you're just as much a culture expert as the guys speaking at these conferences that never seem to end. I haven't noticed the culture gurus having any greater insight that I can't gain by observing the things I encounter in my daily life. Eyes, ears and nose, I guess, open. They call it living. Oh, and if you want to reach our young people pry them away from Facebook and talk to them. You probably have one in your family somewhere. I know it's scary, God will be with you.

So now that you've accumulated all the culture wisdom necessary to reach it, the easy part is done. Now you need Holy Spirit wisdom. Well you actually needed that all along. That's easy to get too, it's free, just ask for it. But now the hard part. DOING IT.

Matthew 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

Doing church for the "one"

2010-02-07T07:11:00.000-08:00

True story, circa 1980's, with a small amount of creative license.

It was a cold winters church night in a small suburban town of Chicago Illinois. A considerable snowstorm was threatening the area, church events for the night were in jeopardy. It would be a shame for this one particular church, they advertised a special sermon topic to the community. Even so the most faithful of church goers knew not to mess with this storm. Sister Mildred made a couple strategic phone calls and before you know it the Pastor's phone was ringing off the hook. "Pastor are you canceling church tonight, did you see the news, this storm is gonna be a biggie." Each phone call sounded all too similar, almost as if they were being coached by someone, wink wink. The pressure was one. What to do? On one hand the Pastor sure doesn't want anyone putting their lives in jeopardy on account of a church service, even Sister Mildred. On the other hand the storm hadn't even started yet, perhaps it will pass by. The Pastor makes his decision, even if the crowd will be small tonight the service must go on.

Church time came and so did the snow, just as predicted. The meteorologist was right and so was Sister Mildred, it was a big one. The Pastor just barely makes it to the church now thinking perhaps he should have just canceled. There was only one other person there, a face he had never seen before, sitting in the large auditorium all by himself. An all time attendance low. In situations like this there is no need to hold service as usual, not for one. Just greet the man, apologize to him and perhaps they can both beat the storm and safely get home. That's what any Pastor would do. Well not this one. What happens next changed a life forever. You see instead of folding the tent and heading home, this Pastor does just the opposite. He holds service as usual. You heard me right, with only one in attendance he preaches as if the place was full. Now mind you this is no small church. The church was one of the largest in the area and easily sat hundreds. What does the Bible say? Where two or three are gathered together. As the Pastor begins the service, the man in the pew begins looking all around him scratching his head and saying to himself what is going on. At first he thinks the situation is incredibly awkward but then he becomes increasingly more impressed with the Pastor. In turns out the man is a local doctor and slowly begins to connect with the Pastor's professionalism and his "show must go on" attitude.

I think you can probably guess the ending of the story. The Doctors surrenders his life to Jesus that night. But what you probably couldn't have guessed is this Pastor and Doctor formed a friendship that lead them both to the mission field. The Pastor preaching the gospel and the Doctor caring for the sick in Africa. All because of the faithfulness of God and a Pastor that knew that church was for the "one".

The Bible teaches us the importance of the one. A shepherd will leave the 99 for the one. There's rejoicing in heaven for one sinner that repents. Even the Pharisees went to great lengths to make just one convert. Don't get me wrong, crowds are great, but what do you do when the crowds attention is somewhere else? Like a football game or something. What do you do when you know the seats will be empty? Do you stay home knowing your going along with the crowd? Do you give into the pressure and like other churches cancel services? I believe, if you do, your missing an opportunity. An opportunity to change a life. After all, that's what the church is all about. Doing church for the "one".

Matthew 25:23
His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

In preparation for my yearly Super Bowl rant .....

2010-02-04T12:08:00.001-08:00

Enjoy this worship song, JESUS IS BETTER THAN FOOTBALL, if you can. If Jesus is really better than the Super Bowl, which He is, then why do churches cancel their services to watch the game? Just saying.

Worship Leaders get their golden ticket

2010-01-26T17:22:00.000-08:00

I promised the next time a church worship leader was featured on American Idol I would write a few sentences about it on my humble space. It happened again tonight, so here we go. Sorry, I don't get all gooey inside with the thought a worship leader is talented enough to compete in a "secular" contest. I know other believers think it's the greatest thing in the world that their worship leader can make it "big". I know pastors probably are banking on the free publicity it will bring to their church. I don't think it's great. Actually it makes me sad that someone can be singing for God on Sunday and then so easily sing for the applause of man on Tuesday. The comments tonight were particularly telling. The latest worship leader was questioned if he could be committed to his church and the contest at the same time. The judges seemed to encourage him to pass on the contest and give his full attention to the church. He didn't. I don't think the thought ever crossed his mind, he walked away with a golden ticket like the many other worship leaders before him. But let's not forget what their walking away from. Oh, and let's not forget what their competing for, the title of American Idol.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Quickly Becoming My Favorite Song

2010-01-21T15:36:00.001-08:00

The Love Of God by Gaither Vocal Band. I love this song, its pushing to the top of my list, yes I have a list. Ok, I need a life.

Where is God when disaster strikes? Haiti

2010-01-14T11:06:00.001-08:00

I understand Pat Robertson has weighed in on the current Haiti disaster. His answer was predictable, and yes I did predict it, ask my wife. Anyhow, I am not entirely comfortable with his answer. I'm not Reformed or a Calvinist but I tend to agree with some of their teachings. Here is a sermon by Dr. Michael Horton who is the J. Gresham Machen Professor of Systematic Theology and Apologetics and an ordained minister in the United Reformed Churches of North America. He preached a sermon that gives some biblical answers about what we're seeing on the news. Don't be fooled by the title, he deals with the topic. Let's pray for the people in Haiti. Here is the link. http://www.grcbible.org/audio/singlesconf-2006/session02-horton.mp3

Atram-Hasi Isle

2010-01-10T18:10:00.000-08:00

This question is floating aroud the internet, pun clearly intended. Apparently some professor uncovered an ancient clay tablet that reveals Noah's ark was more like a round raft you would ride at a water theme park then the rectangular vessel God commanded Noah to build. Now I only got a C in High School Geometry but even I can figure if a diameter isn't mentioned in the dimensions, a circular figure is impossible. Please, let's not let the Bible interfere with our stories people.

Genesis 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. 15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. 16A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

Oh and get this. We were lead to believe Noah was the builder of the Ark. But since this clay tablet was found we know the builders real name was Atram-Hasi. Or maybe even the professor from Giligan's Island built it out of a bunch of coconuts? The article explains,

You can almost imagine the theme music coming in as the door is closed," he says– to leave the audience craving the next episode, which would have continued Atram-Hasis' incredible odyssey.

Are you thinking about the same TV show I'm thinking about? So anyway, since this story is absolutely ridiculous, I thought it deserves a theme song, similar to another work of fiction, Giligan's Island.

Sung to the tune of Giligan's Island.

Atram-Hasi Isle

Just sit right back And you'll hear a tale. A tale of a fateful trip,
That started from this Babylonian port, Aboard a circular ship.
The mate was a mighty sailin' man, Atram-Hasi was his name,
The passengers & animals set sail that day, For 40 day tour, A 40 day tour.
The weather started getting rough, The circular ship was tossed.
If not for the courage of Atram-Hasi The Ark would be lost. The Ark would be lost.
The ship set ground not on a Mount Ararat but some fictional piece of land
With Atram-Hasi, The Skipper too. The millionaire And his wife, The movie star, The professor and Mary Ann, Here on Atram-Hasi Isle.

For the record, the Skipper, the millionaire, his wife, Ginger, Maryann and the professor were on the boat. Creative license.

For those that focus on numbers

2010-01-04T04:05:00.001-08:00

The speaker is Skye Jethani. Worth the 8 minutes.

Five Ways to Revive a Dead Church in 2010

2009-12-31T10:01:00.000-08:00

Recently Franklin Graham was quoted as saying,

Revival. We need revival. Our churches are dead. You have liberalism now that has crept into mainstream evangelicalism. That's scary.

I won't argue with him that our churches are dead. Perhaps we could argue about the reasons it's dead, but that is for another day. If you care about the church, like I do, here are a few ways you can help the church waken from it's slumber in 2010. Try them, what can it hurt?

Attend it. The writer of the book of Hebrews says, "Not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching" (Hebrews 10:25). This means physically move your body from your home to another building or area where there are other believers. Pray, sing, listen and share some love. Groom yourselves please. This means listening to a sermon on your ipod or entering a chat room, aka Internet campus, does not count. Sorry.
Discern it. Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. This will help you avoid becoming a member of a cult before it's too late. Ask yourself, is what I heard today true? Not only will you learn God's word it will keep your Pastor on his toes. It's a win-win.
Help in it. 1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. Ask your Pastor, "Is there anything I can do to help?" After he recovers from his shock, listen to what he says. Do it, and give your best.
Defend it. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. This means when your at work or in line at the grocery store and someone says something nasty about Christians and or God your answer will be effective to make them think twice about going there again. We have the truth, it's a good side to be on. Somehow we just don't know how to use it right.
Promote it. Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! Preaching just doesn't take place in the form of a sermon behind a pulpit on Sunday morning. You can preach to your kids, spouse, Parents, classmates, friends. You can preach on a street corner like Ray Comfort. Then bring them to church. Preach and bring, an improved version of invest and invite.

Perhaps after we do these things God will look upon us and bless the Church with his gifts. I think the effort comes first. God help me do the things I listed here. Happy New Year!!

Brilliant Sounding Quotes

2009-12-30T07:06:00.000-08:00

Here's a quote from Enrichment magazine, the A/G publication that recently devoted an entire issue describing strategies and methods to transform the church,

Who is God calling you to reach? When you aim at everyone, you usually get no one.

Sounds brilliant doesn't it? So that's what we've been doing wrong all these years. We're a church for everyone, instead First Assembly should only be reaching recently divorced Nascar fans that work two jobs and have weight issues. Second Assembly should only reaching college age students that live at home and enjoy writing and traveling. Third Assembly should only be reaching young retirees that made a fortune in the stock market and now devote their time to drift wood sculpting and lawn bowling. How come it took the church 2000 years to figure this out? Because of you, brilliant sounding quote, you are the source for the change, therefore you must be repeated over and over again until the changes come. If you repeat it enough the church will change. The quote seems to always win.

Just for the record I too can create brilliant sounding quotes, here are a few I created just by sitting at my computer,

Until your church is ready for full scale implementation of changes expect only half-scale effectiveness in it's mission.

The healthy church will be constantly asking the question what is unhealthy about those I am trying to reach?

If you can't change the immediate things in your church's life how can you expect the unchurched to change the eternal things of their lives.

Go ahead, tweet them. Take credit for them I don't care. Need more, let me know I can pump them out for you.

The problem with brilliant sounding quotes is just that, they SOUND brilliant but only represent part of the truth. Take for example the quote that motivated our country during WWII, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." True, fear can debilitate and make one useless. But I'm pretty sure Panzer tanks and Japanese Zero bombers were something to fear. "When you aim at everyone, you usually get no one", I guess is true to a certain extent. But what was happening at the Billy Graham crusades for all those years? Did he have a target audience or did he invite everyone? And do we really want to compare that quote to the Word of God? Come unto me ALL that labor and are heavy burdened. For God so loved .... that WHOSOEVER believes in Him. Everyone was invited to the synagogue. Everyone was invited to the temple. And most importantly Jesus invited everyone, even the kid's church munchkins, to Himself. I think you get my point. Maybe the church can take a break from the quotes for a little while or the quotes may break the church. Brilliant. I know.

The Great Annual Christmas Quiz

2009-12-23T11:37:00.000-08:00

Is there any indication as to how old Jesus was when the Wise Men {Magi} came to Bethlehem?
What was the relationship between John the Baptist and Jesus as indicated in the birth accounts of Jesus? [Luke 1:36]
What was the reason the Wise Men (Magi) come to Bethlehem in the fist place?
In Mark’s gospel concerning the birth of Jesus how many Wise men were there?
Were the Wise men at the stable with the shepherds at the same time as so many Christmas scenes depict? If not how do we know?
In Luke 2:7 we read: "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn." What is a manger?
Why were Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem when Jesus was born in the first place?
In Luke 2:8 wen read "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Why were the shepherds living out in the fields keeping watch over their flocks by night?
What hymn did the angels sing when the shepherds were informed about Jesus birth?
What was Biblically unusual about the fact that Mary was about to have a baby when she and Joseph came to Bethlehem?
As question #8 may indicate, Jesus was not born in December. Why do we celebrate Jesus’ birth on December 25th?
Is it true that the names of the three wise men were Gaspar, Melchior and Balthazar? If these were not their names, what were their names?
Our Christmas scenes often portray snow. Was there any snow in Palestine when Jesus was born?

It's all about the numbers .... but isn't

2009-12-22T08:45:00.000-08:00

The latest issue, Winter 2010, of enrichment magazine, an Assembly of God publication, had several very interesting articles that I wanted to comment on. I'll start with an article that interviews three Pastors that "turned around" their struggling churches entitled Turning the Tide. My summary ...

Pastor 1 says, When I came to my church we had about 500 people, now our average attendance is 1600.
Pastor 2 says, When I came we were averaging 100 people, now 7 years later we are at 300.
Pastor 3 says, The year before I came we averaged 185 people, today we have 300 in Sunday morning attendance.

Success. After all, that is why they are being interviewed. They did it. Attendance was low now attendance is higher. They must be doing something right. Think about it. When was the last time you heard about a "turn-around" church that decreased in numbers? "When I came we were running 400 on Sunday morning, now after the big "turn-around" our average attendance is 75. Let me share how I did it." You laugh. Oh, but wait. In the same article we find the following quote,

"As pastors, we put too much emphasis on numbers. We need to focus on the overall health of the church."

Stop the presses! Let's not go any further than that, Enrichment Journal, Assemblies of God, the church of Jesus Christ everywhere. If it is really true that the overall health of a church isn't found in numbers then why did the article immediately establish numerical growth as the basis for the "turn-around"? So which is it? Numerical growth or not? Talk amongst yourselves, I won't be holding my breath, somehow I think my question will go unanswered.

I truly feel for many Pastors that may be reading, or have read, the latest issue of enrichment magazine. I really doubt many will discern the radical transformation that is being promoted in it from cover to cover. I am sure there are some things in it that may be helpful but the thought that the church is in need of such a radical transformation just baffles me. But I feel for the Pastor that is quietly doing God's will in the church that He has entrusted him with. I fear that he is going to feel pressured, by his people, his denomination's journal, his peers into implementing methods, strategies and visions that aren't part of the call of God. What ever happened to moving only in the Spirit? What ever happened to the simple message of repentance and forgiveness? What ever happened to loving God with all our hearts? What ever happened to proclaiming and living the truth in Jesus name? What ever happened to doing God's will even if it doesn't achieve "results"? The church isn't on the same page when it comes to these things. It's not even on the same page in the same article. God help us.

An honest question, mission field related

2009-12-15T20:00:00.000-08:00

Forget the Berean bullying stuff for a second. If you have some time go here and read this and then come back. At risk of exposing how few readers my blog really has let me ask an honest question that hopefully receives a few responses. Where hasn't the gospel already been preached? Seriously, am I missing something here? The gospel has reached every continent, right? The Bible has been printed in hundreds of languages so every language group has heard about Christ, right? So quite frankly, I'm asking, what are our missionaries doing? Honest question, not looking for a fight, just asking.

Why do Bereans get Bullied?

2009-12-11T08:14:00.000-08:00

Several years ago I posted a short blog post entitled Bullying the Bereans. I described the new trend in the church, by Pastors, especially church planters, to bully anyone who dares "criticize" them. They turn noble Bereans into pathetic trouble making Pharisees. To be honest, I never imagined the possibility that bullying could actually escelate to real danger for some. If you have a free couple of hours go here and read how a few on the staff of one church took it a bit too far. I want to say "I told you so", but I never expected such behavior. Apparently not only do mega-church Pastors need bodyguards (they really don't but it makes a cool impression), but Bereans need them also. So why are Bereans (those who hold others accountable to be true to the Word that they proclaim) so often bullied? I have a few thoughts.

Insecurity. Many CCP's , innovative teachers and authors bully their critics because they are insecure. They know what they teach and practice is on shaky ground if it's exposed to the light of God's word. It's easier to divert the attention and offend the so called "Pharisees" then actually defend what they do. The best defense is a good offense. However, if it's of God it will withstand Biblical scrutiny. Why not just allow it?
People like a good fight. This one scares me. It's no coincidence that in our extreme cage fighting society people are looking for Pastors that know how to fight. "I got your back Pastor, we'll mop the floor with those pathetic Bereans." Believe it or not there is truth to this one. Several churches have hosted extreme cage fighting events and had tattoo artists right on stage. "Did you check Pastor's new tattoo? That's my boy, don't mess with him." Combine that with the fact that most of these guys are young (20's-30's) and even worse openly demand loyalty from all those around them you've got an atmosphere for trouble.
Vision. Possibly the biggest problem facing the church today, vision casting. Set a goal in your mind, pursue it, steamroll anyone that gets in the way, all in the name of "vision". Without a vision people die is true. But some have changed this to become with a vision people die. Many of these vision casters have a list of people that they trampled over to get to where they are. One day, when the human will isn't as strong, and the "visions" are over they are going to regret what they have done. Anyway, the calling of the Pastor is quite simple, preach the Word.
Pragmatism. What I'm doing is getting results so shut your trap. "Results" usually means what their doing is drawing a crowd and people are responding to their messages. Pragmatism becomes an obsession and an addiction. Numbers! Numbers! Numbers! If a pragmatist is called to do something that may sacrifice the numbers then they will lash out. Protect the numbers at all costs.

Imagine with me for a moment the Apostle Paul arriving in Berea and there he finds some that insist on checking what he said be found in Scripture. Imagine Paul using the bully pulpit, lashing out against them, calling them names simply because they checked him out with the Holy Scripture. If Paul, who was an inspired Spirit anointed Apostle, behaved in such a manner, what could be expected of those with less spiritual maturity. A smack in the face? A harassing note? A good old fashioned stoning? Leaders set the example and Paul is the perfect example for the church to emulate when it comes to "criticism". The Bereans were nothing short of noble. My next post will be when the Bereans take it too far.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

What a lovely name this name called Jesus!!!

2009-12-03T16:14:00.001-08:00

I love this song, enjoy.

The church needs pastors

2009-11-19T07:45:00.000-08:00

I just found this program while digging through a box of old stuff. On July 20th, 1957 Billy Graham preached to 100,000 people at Yankee Stadium, Bronx New York. Yankee Stadium is a place reserved for winners. At the time the Yankees had won 17 of there 27 World Series championships and Billy Graham was in full swing (pun clearly intended) as a traveling evangelist, he would go on to preach to millions and lead many to faith in Christ.

What I have always admired about Billy Graham's ministry is, not only that he is great preacher, but what happened after the crusade. The Graham ministry had a great follow up program. Billy's ministry team would follow up on those who came forward to receive Christ. The team would contact the local churches and notify them of the new believers that are in there local area. They would connect the local church with the new believer. The local church would then be in charge of "discipleship".

Compare that with what is happening today in our mega-churches. Mega churches are building there own stadiums, attracting a crowd and claiming decisions for Christ. (BTW I am assuming the very best, that the gospel is clearly being presented and not being watered down by mixing it with large doses of worldly entertainment and other things "of the flesh", yes I used the term "of the flesh") But by their own admission they are doing a poor job of discipleship. This is because the main purpose for assembling as a church is for the edification of believers not for attracting a crowd. Evangelistic crusades attract a crowd, the church attracts believers. Evangelists preach in stadiums, Pastors preach in churches. When Pastors change church into a evangelistic crusade they become evangelists. And if everyone listens to these evangelists advice and do likewise Pastors eventually will become extinct. The church needs pastors for the Bible tells me so.

Ephesians 4: 11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

The "new" Pastor and "traditional" Pastor collide

2009-11-03T09:53:00.000-08:00

Can the role of the pastor change because a movement wants it to? When you get a chance read this article, an interview with a prominent CCP (cool church pastor), at Christianpost.com. If you weren't aware of the movement to intentionally change the role of Pastor you will be after you read the article. But as you read the article you will notice that, at times, the article is fighting against itself, not easily accepting this "new" Pastoral role. For example, on one hand the newer "healthier" role is explained. The new Pastor no longer is expected to visit hospitals or even pray for his people. The claim is the "traditional" Pastor role can create a co-dependency that is unhealthy for all. The new Pastor also limits his time to the church, isn't present at every church event and is more devoted to family. On the other hand, in the same article, we find the traditional role of the Pastor espoused. A Pastor that is always there to offer spiritual guidance and available for spiritual questions. After all, the Pastor has this luxury with his fellow Pastors so he makes himself available likewise. Strange as it may seem the "new" Pastor and the "traditional" Pastor collide for the entire world to read right in the same article.

Just for the record, this idea of a "new"Pastoral role isn't limited to one interview on a Christian web site. It's being repeated countless numbers of times across the country and the world. It's a movement with many behind it's support. So please don't accuse me of singling out one Pastor's opinion. Anyway who will win, the "new" Pastor or the "traditional" Pastor? What will our Pastors and churches be like ten or twenty years from now? I realize it's not looking too good for the traditional Pastor but time will tell which Pastor will actually win the battle. I do know however if the Word of God is the standard the traditional Pastor should win with a knock out punch. Consider the following:

This idea that a Pastor shouldn't be expected to make hospital visits or even pray with his people is just ridiculous. Can we have some consistency here please? How many times have we heard a CCP say, Jesus hung out with sinners? If Jesus hung out with sinners (he really didn't but that's an entire other post) he most definitely hung out with sick people. And where do you find sick people? I won't even answer that obvious question. I'm sorry but I can't find any better way for a Pastor to show his love and concern for his people then to visit them when they are sick in the hospital. Not only does it display the love of Christ to the believer but don't most patients have roommates? What a chance to share the love of Christ with someone else. And then this idea of not praying for someone. I don't even know how to even address that! Yes people need to learn to pray for themselves, I am sure that is taught in all the churches. But I would hope that a person that stands in need of prayer would be able to call on a Pastor without hesitation. What a shame it would be if someone needed prayer and the last person they felt they could call is the Pastor!

And then this whole idea of family and a Pastor limiting his time. Don't get me wrong I've heard the horror stories of a Pastor neglecting his family while devoting all his time to the church. In my opinion it's the exception not the rule. But doesn't the word of God warn this could happen.

I Corinthians 7:32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is
concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord.

The Roman Catholic church has it's many errors in it's theology but I do credit that they take the word of God seriously. Yes they go overboard by requiring Priests to be unmarried but the recognize the potential problems and made the call. So in my opinion if a Pastor is having a hard time managing his time between the affairs of the church and the affairs of the family instead of choosing one over the other just quit. You heard me right, instead of changing the role of a Pastor, quit and leave it to someone who can. As much as one may try to make the pastorate a 9-5 job you'll find it's an impossibility. When a sheep leaves the 99 they don't do it with the shepherds schedule in mind. There are no time clocks in the Ministry. Jesus was available around clock. When did Nicodemus come to Jesus with his questions about his eternal soul? By night and Jesus was available and didn't send his disciples to answer him either. I'm sure Nicodemus appreciated His time and later we know Nicodemus gives back.

There is more than enough time for hospital visits, prayer, family and spiritual questions. Think about it, what "new" Pastor doesn't spend their time blogging, tweeting, facebooking, attending church conferences and writing books? All these things get them noticed by the masses and promote their ministries. So time really is just a poor excuse. There is an attitude behind what is going on. An attitude that says instead of fitting into the traditional role of the Pastor I'll just change the role. Sorry this just doesn't sit well with me, or the Bible. I like the humble giving and self sacrificing attitude of the "traditional" Pastor much better. I believe it reflects much better the attitude of Christ. I really hope the "traditional" Pastor begins to win the battle again.

Financial Chaos University

2009-10-09T05:42:00.000-07:00

This has been eating at me for a long time. It's time to run to the blog. Here's the problem. Credit Card debt is a big problem in our country. This includes believers. Most churches know that attenders that have high amounts of debt will give less. Therefore they are offering help for their parishioners to get out of debt. The most common source of help is Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University program. Dave Ramsey offers sound biblical instruction on how to become good stewards of what God has given us. I take no issue with Dave Ramsey, in fact I will email him this post. I hope your reading Dave. Maybe Dave can become a "raider of the lost church" and tackle this issue on the air.

Here is where I take issue. In some cases, to get to your FPU class you'll have to walk right past an ATM machine, or giving Kiosk, in the church lobby. A machine that will charge your credit card for your giving. Then you will go and learn in a FPU class how to get out of debt and avoid using credit cards. Does anyone else see the conflicting principles? It's my understanding that 50% of churches now provide some type of giving system that can charge a credit card. If it isn't in the lobby it's on the Internet. Some may argue that church leaders have instructed givers to use their credit cards wisely when it comes to this type of giving. If so then why is it necessary to offer FPU classes? If sound biblical teaching on stewardship is already happening then why FPU? Is it just another program to offer the community and boost attendance figures and giving? But allowing credit card giving has multiple problems not just an error in principle.

Credit card transactions are never free. When a credit card payment is processed a percentage, somewhere between 2 and 3%, of the money exchanged goes to the credit card company. If you are a tither that means your 10% becomes 9.7%. Now some may say that's being picky. Is it? If someone makes $50,000 a year, the tithe is $5000, at 3% the credit card company gets $150. Chump change? If one truly believes that it's God's money, the very principle that is being taught, you would have a losing argument. But to truly illustrate the extent of the problem do we dare attempt to total all the fees of all the believers that is being paid to the credit card companies? Needless to say there would be allot less poor among us, the very thing we as believers are called to care for. The upside is credit card companies that are oppressing many customers would be poorer. Guilt trip clearly intended.

By the way I haven't even mentioned interest. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that balances are paid off each month. I highly doubt that this is the case across the board. So there we have more fees paid to the credit card companies. Oh and let's not forget that many of these companies are down right evil. Yeah you heard me right, God's money going to support evil. Some, not all, credit card companies are shady businesses that enslave debtors. But anyway I think it's telling that churches are having a hard time saying no to credit card giving. I realize that they may be seeing the bottom line and experiencing increased giving as a whole and won't regard this issue I make. I think it's a mistake. They may not realize it but instead of teaching at Financial Peace University they are teaching at Financial Chaos University.

I wish I could describe Him to you

2009-10-02T09:49:00.001-07:00

Who is Jesus? Do you know Him?

Obama's School Speech: A few thoughts

2009-09-08T09:46:00.000-07:00

I didn't like the fact that President Obama was going to address all of our public schools. After listening to his speech I am glad he did. Actually it was a speech I think many adults can benefit from. Believe in yourself, never give up, success comes through persistent hard work, education being an important part of the equation. These disciplines should continue in a person's life way past age school age.

Anyway there is something I would have changed, coming from a believer's viewpoint. Obama offered the success and failure of our country as his final motivation to persist in school, education, and hard work. Obama claims students will be letting this country down if they give up on themselves. This may be true, but as believers this is not our ultimate motivation. God wants us to work hard and discipline our lives. If we fail to do these things we are displeasing the ultimate authority, the living God.

The United States of America is not the perfect example of hard work, self-motivation and persistence in learning. If we offer our efforts to prosper this nation we will be truly disappointed. However if we offer our work to God as worship it will be blessed. Here is what the word of God says.

Proverbs 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 Thessalonians 4:11And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

Is ministry really that complicated?

2009-08-21T19:55:00.000-07:00

I just finished browsing over a very popular mega church pastor's blog post. The post was basically a bullet pointed list of ten things all church leaders need to remember as they lead their churches. Now standing alone, the list, I guess, is fine. But when you add that list to the previous 20,000 other lists this particular leader has posted, this year alone, and then add that list to the lists of other mega-church pastor's blogs, it begs the question. Is ministry really that complicated? I mean is it really necessary to analyze every function of a church like John Madden breaks down a winning rushing touchdown using his telestrator.

Not only that but half the stuff that is being analyzed today is almost totally meaningless and wasn't even given a second thought just decades ago. But here come the church growth gurus with a solution for just about every church problem that might, could, possibly stymie numerical growth (notice I said "numerical"), light years before it will ever happen. It's no wonder these churches aren't bigger then they really are with all this energy, thought and attention. Which makes me wonder if they may be church worshippers? You be the judge.

The New Relevant Phrase

2009-08-05T08:03:00.000-07:00

I'm mulling this one over. I've been listening to the business session at this years A/G General Council in Orlando Florida when an executive threw out one of those phrases that probably no one thought twice about. The new relevant phrase similar to "unchurched", "de-churched" and "missional", phrases that are now common lingo but have questionable, at best, meanings. The phrase was "pre-conversion discipleship". I guarantee we'll be hearing this phrase more and more. For the life of me I don't even know how to define this phrase much less defend it biblically. It's new, it sounds good, so we'll be hearing it more and more and you won't be able to escape it.

Power to the People

2009-07-24T06:01:00.000-07:00

It only took 5 years but the multi-site/video venue movement is finally starting to meet some serious opposition. Rightfully so. Pastors and church leaders are starting to voice their disapproval defending the biblical church. The multi-site guys are starting to answer back, sort of, defending their creation of video venue campuses across the country. So what exactly is this argument all about?

The discussion has been centered around video as a tool to use in the church. To me this isn't the pressing issue. Churches have been using this technology for years since the creation of the VHS. Pastors would use this technology to supplement and "fill in the gaps" of their own ministry. It's not ideal but doable. I haven't met too many people that have objected to it's use as a way to "fill in the gaps."

The problem is with it's overuse or, better said, it's sole use. Here is where the intent of those who are using this model needs to be called into question. I recently read a quote, by a church leader, about the multi-site model that I found very troublesome. You can view the discussion and quote here he said,

Many proponents of the satellite church model do not expect (and won't allow) their satellite churches to become self-governing churches, regardless of how large they become.

I have no reason to believe that statement isn't true. If it is it should trouble all those who have a concern for the present and future of the church.

So in my view the video teaching situation is a non-issue in most cases. These churches have no choice. These churches are forced, not necessarily by word but by practice, to accept something that they have no say in the matter. The real issue is what exactly is happening with these so called "satellite" video venue churches.

So here is where I stand on this whole issue. I do hold to some possibility that, if a church is properly trained in the word of God and organized in a biblical manner, that they could choose to use video as their source for teaching and preaching. If so then let it be. Every week I get great teaching on 2355 channels on my TV. I know my cable signal works. Internet streaming is easy enough. A five year old kid can post a video on youtube. It can be done. However, eventually I believe that God will raise up teachers within the body to do this important ministry. But they must be given a chance. I say Power to the People!

Praying in the Spirit

2009-07-05T15:52:00.000-07:00

Here is an excellent sermon by Dr.Adrian Rogers. Well worth the time. http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Love_Worth_Finding/archives.asp?bcd=6/19/2009

A REAL Multi-Site Church Revolution

2009-07-03T16:48:00.000-07:00

Just thinking out-loud, regarding this whole multi-site church bandwagon that every mega-church and denominational leader is jumping on. Wouldn't this be nice. Consider this possibility.

Coolness Community Church launches a "site" or "campus" 30 miles away from it's current location in a small theatre. It starts slow but a year later it has a steady attendance of about 150 believers. These believers are hungry for God and grow in the Word despite the 45 minute presentation piped to there video screens from miles away. As they study the Word together it becomes more apparent that they really are there own Church, not just a smaller part of a larger organization. They present there findings to the "Lead Pastor" (sometimes known as a personal kingdom builder) and discuss their desire to form their own identity as a local assembly or what is commonly known as a CHURCH. They claim despite the lack of interest of other multi-site campuses they have a real desire to be faithful to the Word and must have there own Pastor, Elders, Deacons and tithes should stay within the local congregation. The Lead Pastor resists. In turn the group decides to meet separate from the larger organization and even successfully negotiate with the theatre for their own meeting time. That's what I call a REAL Multi-Site Church Revolution.

This should bless you

2009-06-15T20:16:00.001-07:00

Enjoy.

One Old Man Can't Be All That Bad

2009-06-13T14:26:00.001-07:00

Love this song. Enjoy. "Antioch Church House Choir" By The Dixie Melody Boys

Cool Church Pastors

2009-06-02T20:51:00.003-07:00

The solution to this problem is utilizing a creative team? How about read your Bible.

Colossians 3:8
But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

What is the gospel?

2009-05-17T21:18:00.000-07:00

You may have heard me use the term, once or twice, the "watered down gospel." Many have no idea what I'm talking about. And for many I think it's purely out of ignorance. They say the best way to spot counterfeit money is to study the real currency and not examine the phony stuff. So it goes with the preaching of the gospel. How can I expect someone to be in agreement with me about the watered down gospel if they never experienced the real stuff? This I do know. When the gospel is preached in it's fullness it's hard to ignore.

So what is the gospel? On the right margin of this blog I added a video that clearly answers the question I and others are asking. It's a sermon by itinerant Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias. He was invited to preach at a Mormon LDS Tabernacle. On that evening he presented the gospel in a very powerful way. For me this was one of the best presentations of the pure gospel message I ve heard in a long time. I hope you enjoy it. It's a long service but the preaching begins at about minute 50. You can forward to that point if you like.

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

2009-05-15T06:18:00.000-07:00

Rented it. Watched half. Turned it off. If your a believer please don't waste your money and time. Yes, I know churches are doing sermons based on the movie. They look hard to find a spiritual truth in anything popular. But I don't know how anyone can ignore the message that is loud and clear. In this movie Benjamin Button has sex with just about anyone he wants, married or unmarried. Sorry no believer needs to sit through that and the church doesn't need to endorse it.

Breaking News: Relevant Church Version 1.0 Experiencing Glitches

2009-05-13T05:20:00.000-07:00

This story just crossed my desk. Apparently the program, Relevant Church Version 1.0, that has been running the church for many years is experiencing glitches. Craig Groeschel, multi-site church planter and long time user and developer of the program, is reporting the following problems.

What used to be edgy is becoming distasteful. What used to be cool is becoming cheesy. What used to be creative is becoming gimmicky.

Craig and a loyal team of relevant church programmers are currently discussing possible corrections to the program. So far solutions include emphasizing the word of God over creativity and eliminating "cool" from the program language. Craig reports the beta version of Relevant Church ver 2.0 is already in place and church leaders are experiencing excellent results. Relevant Church Version 2.0 is more Bible friendly. Prayer, fasting, personal confession and repentance are emphasized over entertainment, relevant church experiences and shock effect sermons. We still don't know if some language will be included in the latest version. Controversial language like, "anything short of sin", "everything's an experiment", "the methods change but the methods stay the same" "there are different kinds of people so there should be different types of churches" and "pop goes the church" that made version 1.0 so popular and helped build many personal kingdoms are still being debated. Don't count on version 2.0 to handle opposition any different however. Opposing voices will still be labeled as Pharisees, critics and dissenters. ROTLC will be watching version 2.0 closely. Developing.

Joel Osteen at Yankee Stadium: $157 - Reading Your Bible: Priceless

2009-04-08T05:57:00.000-07:00

This was awkward. Sean Hannity interviewed Joel and Victorian Osteen recently on his Fox News program. The topic was the tough financial times families are facing. Sean ended the interview by asking Joel about his upcoming event at the new Yankee Stadium. Here is the transcript.

HANNITY: All right. Last question. So you've got — you're going to the brand-new Yankee Stadium, April 25, and anyone can come? Or is it?

J. OSTEEN: It is. It's a ticketed event, but it's open to anybody. We'd love to have whoever wants to come.

Tough times? This is not your grandfather's evangelist Sean, sorry to disappoint you. The Billy Graham crusade era is over. Free? Your kidding me. Anyone can come if you have the shekels. Don't worry Sean the cat has been out of the bag for many years. Christians are comfortable promoting the marketed Gospel with their book, Cd, church conference and concert purchases. We've been doing it for years.

So how much will the typical Christian family plop down to hear Joel's message during these tough times? Let's say for a family of four. Tickets will set you back $15 each. Go to Ticketmaster.com or you can search the web if you want to pay more. (The scalpers/money changers are profiting from this event.) So to enter the stadium $60. You'll have to park your buggy, it's a special event so the garages in the Bronx will charge $25. It's hard to hear how great your life is on an empty stomach. Hot dogs and soda will set you back about $8 each, and I'm being conservative, trust me. Let's not forget the souvenirs. Sorry Mom and Dad, remember tough times, you walk away with nothing, the kids will be a hit at school on Monday with their Joel and Victoria t-shirts, $20 each, so that's $40. So let's do the math. Tickets $60. Parking $25. Food $32. T-shirts $40. So the price of seeing Joel Osteen at Yankee Stadium is $157. Staying home and reading your Bible: priceless.

FWI I didn't include book sales. Oh and while your there make sure you buy a copy of Joel's latest book, Your life is perfect: now what? Kidding of course.

Cussing Pastors are not cool

2009-04-03T04:33:00.001-07:00

This sermon is a must listen. I started this blog almost 4 years because I noticed an arrogance and even unholy attitude that was filling our pulpits. It didn't/doesn't seem to bother many that a blog "church marketing sucks" was/is a standard amongst churches. This sermon is needed, but sadly late. Damage has been done to the church.

Shut up its a "style" thing

2009-04-02T09:58:00.000-07:00

I just read it again. Maybe for the 10,451st time. Yes I'm counting. "It's a style thing. We have methodological differences." This comment almost always comes from a church leader that is defending their new invention of "doing church." These "new" churches almost always include ungodly music, foul language and a sex sermon series every other week.

So who decides if it's a style thing? Why is "style" the final answer to the debate, argument, discussion or what ever else you want to call whats going on? Who said? How easy it is to dismiss any criticism as a "style" thing? For example:

What a privilege!!! Next week the Rolling Stones will be leading worship. Someone says this isn't right. Shut up it's a style thing.
Our next baptism will be held at the local water park. Candidates will use the water slide and when they hit the water we'll shout "whoop there it is." Someone says this isn't right. Shut up it's a style thing.
We'll be holding a Bible Study every week for the next 10 weeks at Hooters. Someone says this isn't right. Shut up it's a style thing.
We'll be having communion next week, so as always we're going to try something different, bring your unsaved friends, a bucket of KFC and a six pack. The word of God says,

I Corinthians 11:17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good.

It's just a style thing?

Doin your own thing

2009-03-31T03:33:00.001-07:00

Profound spiritual church related application soon to follow.

Is there a difference?

2009-03-24T06:24:00.000-07:00

Just thinking out loud. Do all of the following represent the same thing, the salvation of the soul? Is there any phrase we as believers should eliminate from our vocabulary so we do not mislead the ignorant?

Crossed the line of faith.
Make a profession in Christ.
Open one's life to Jesus.
Receive Christ.
Get Saved.
Say the sinners prayer.
Ask Jesus into your heart.
Commit your live to Jesus.
Become a believer.
Become born again.
Become a Christian.

Two extremes with one common bond

2009-03-23T11:29:00.000-07:00

I see the church today in two extremes. One one hand there is the New Apostolic Reformation or NAR. A movement where "apostles" rule and no one is to ask questions. On the other hand there is the Purpose Driven Life / Seeker Centered church where pragmatism rules and no one is to ask questions. Each extreme can best be seen in the following examples, true testimonies I am told, each with a common thread.

PDL/ Seeker Sensitive: A few months ago a friend phoned to ask if I had ever heard of Rick Warren. “Yes” I replied. “Why are you asking”? He said, “I just got kicked out of a Bible Study for bringing my Bible to it.” That is how the idea for this article came to me. The Bible study my friend attended was really a Purpose Driven Life study group. The Purpose Driven Life book they were studying referenced Bible passages that sounded off base. He was told that if he was going to attend the study, he would have to leave his Bible at home, because the issues he brought up were disruptive to the group. He chose to quit instead.

NAR: Well, there was once when I recall a Bible being in service. A visitor had brought it; a small framed, nicely dressed man, who looked to me to be quite innocuous. He had it open on his lap and was reading it silently. Suddenly two of the ushers came rushing down the hall and standing one on each side, strong armed him out the door. He asked what he had done but his pleas were to no avail. It left me unsettled but I reasoned that they must have had a reason. It was curious to me though that they did not have a problem with the homeless drunks coming to drink coffee and loll on the floors, or even with the witches that seemed magnetically drawn to the services, but a man reading his Bible threatened them.

Fill in the Blank

2009-03-20T07:59:00.000-07:00

I found the time. I did a google search and browsed the first 8 pages and this is what I came up with. There are plenty more. So here we go. If you ever wondered why the church in America is in such sorry shape it's because our leaders are looking to our secular institutions to improve it. Some of these are really strange and if you don't believe me do the search yourself. My favorites are the circus and hobbits. What are yours? What can the church learn from .............. ?

The Circus
Brand Building
An Abandoned House
The Auto Industry (that's the P-mans)
Dove
Gay & Lesbian Movement
Sports Fans
Ethnic Immigrant Cultures
General Motors
The Italian Family
Alcoholics Anonymous
Muslims Online
Microsoft
The Boston Celtics
Hip Hop Culture
Wikipedia
STOMP
Starbucks
Twitter
Hobbits

What can the church learn from ...........?

2009-03-19T09:47:00.000-07:00

When I get some free time I'm going to google search and compile a list of the 100's of different ways that blank has been filled. Apple Inc. was used here. But this was too funny. The author of the Apple post says the following.

Before I begin, I’d like to mention one caveat. The Church is obviously different than Corporate America. The dynamics just aren’t the same. Like many of you, I’ve cringed when the two are treated as one and the same. However, I think we can extrapolate some of their concepts and approaches to effectively accomplish the Great Commission.

That being said let's get to the point at hand, What can the church learn from Apple? Dude, I'm cringing that you went ahead and treated the two the same anyway!!! Wake me up when the church comes to it's senses please.

Is Your Church Free From Cultic Tendencies?

2009-03-18T20:35:00.000-07:00

Cult is a tough word. A cult usually ends with some sort of abuse or destruction. But I've been thinking lately a church doesn't have to be destructive or even abusive to have cultic tendencies. I found this handy checklist. Feel free to compare this list with what you observe and experience in your own church. Better yet if you want to test some of these questions hand it to your pastor. Only if God leads you. Don't blame me.

Is your pastor fully accountable to a board of elders, presbyters, et cetera?
Is loyalty to Jesus and to one’s own calling placed before loyalty to pastor and church?
Does your pastor encourage questions and suggestions?
Is he approachable?
Does your pastor give equal attention to all kinds of people in his congregation?
Does your pastor readily admit his errors?
Does your pastor avoid boasting or hinting at a “special anointing?”
Is your pastor truly humble?
Are the sermons based on clear Biblical truths, not on “original revelations” or ax-grinding?
Does your church interact with other churches?
Does your church staff avoid secrecy?
Is power shared in your church (rather than preempted by a hierarchy)?
Does your church see itself as just one organ of the Body of Christ, and not the main one?
Is your church truly friendly?
Does your church emphasize ministry to people rather than church “programs?”
Are especially needy people cared for lovingly in your church?
Are church members encouraged and loved even when they leave?
Are relationships with former members encouraged or allowed?
Do the pastor and congregation avoid attacking, and using as “object lessons,” former members or those who disagree?
Are families encouraged to stay together and spend time together?
Does your family worship together in the Sunday service (including children, at least for part of the service)?
Are you encouraged in your own calling?
Are pleas for money rare and unemotional?
Are your children happy to attend church?
Are you happy to bring unsaved friends to your church?
Is there a diversity of classes, races, dress styles, ages, and occupations in your church?
Are people encouraged to hear from God for themselves?
Is there a single behavior standard for all people in the church?
Are all types of people considered welcome at your church?
Is the joy of the Lord present in your church?
Are you free from fear in your church?
Do you think more about God and Jesus than you do about your pastor and church?
Does your pastor included (sic) himself in any calls for repentance and forgiveness?
Are you clear the pastors and elders never exaggerate or lie to make themselves look good?
Is your group encouraging of each other and free from gossip and rumoring?
Is there a humility of doctrine that points to the grace of God and His mercy for sinners?
Are you encouraged to serve in ministries or missions outside the local body?
Is there ever any pressure put upon members to give or lend money to leaders for their personal or business use (exclusive of church business or projects)?

My Kingdom Come

2009-03-18T08:11:00.000-07:00

I know I have a few readers that have dared to challenge the establishments of what now is their former church. This post is for you. Just for the record if you challenged a new church plant you didn't stand a chance. Most new church plants are designed in such a way that is impossible for anyone other then the lead pastor to have any influence. The church planter hand picks the elders and his staff. The constitution is designed in such a way that the membership has no real voting rights. Business meetings are a mere formality. The job of lead pastor in a church plant is the most secure job in the country. It's a benevolent dictatorship with the church planter in chief at the throne. Loyalty is demanded from his staff and there is always someone that "got his back". This loyalty is rarely returned. Church staff is warned to always keep their eyes and ears open for "critics". Critics are dealt with swiftly, danger is averted and the business of the kingdom continues. They don't really cooperate with any denomination but only seek to influence it if they are part of one. Too often the business of the kingdom is the business itself. It's not "Thy kingdom come" it's "My kingdom come". This author has been there and done that. He dared to challenge the establishment and his words are so true. Here is the entire post. Speaking of today's "Christianity" Paul Proctor says.

Generally speaking, what is the first order of business for most secular institutions? Is it not to grow and sustain the institution itself for the sake of its cause or objective? Is it not to preserve, promote and help the institution by contributing in some way to its increase in revenue? And are not those who are hired by such institutions primarily interested in securing, protecting and advancing their own careers within that institution, thus making them servants of it? Moreover, don't many so-called "Christian" institutions do much the same thing even though they claim to be advancing the Kingdom of God, the Gospel of Christ and/or some "ministry?"

The David Wilkerson prophecy everyone ignored

2009-03-13T11:23:00.000-07:00

Back in 1998, I believe, David Wilkerson preached a sermon at an Assemblies of God headquarters chapel service. It was truly prophetic. Most in the chapel that day, it seems, ignored what he said. 10 years later the church and the Assemblies of God have never been the same. You can read the sermon here. This part is of particular interest.

You see, this is the gospel of accommodation—the formula. You get the formula,
you get what people want, and you can be a success. I am here to tell you that a
formula-based, accommodating gospel is contrary to everything in the
Scriptures.

How many times have you heard "the methods change but the message stays the same"? I guarantee you never heard Wilkerson say it. At one time I had the audio for this sermon. If I remember correctly he also prophesied a seeker church would begin in Manhattan. I also think that has come to pass. In my opinion more attention should be brought to this prophecy then his recent one. Lest we forget judgement begins in the House of God.

Wilkerson's Prophecy

2009-03-12T12:12:00.001-07:00

I had planned to post a long discourse on David Wilkerson's recent prophecy declaring a massive national calamity. But I thought this video could speak instead. Enjoy it. One of these mornings.

Nothing Changes Overnight

2009-03-07T08:10:00.001-08:00

Classic christian rock circa 1986. Nothing changes overnight but can you see the influence in our churches now? Later Mylon wrote a song entitled Denomination Demolition, HMMMM.

The "seeker church" In a nutshell

2009-03-05T07:54:00.001-08:00

After 3 years of this siliness I couldn't take anymore. This preacher explains it in a nutshell. I laughed during most of it.

The message 142 years ago and the message today

2009-03-03T07:47:00.000-08:00

I love old things. Holding something that has survived hundreds of years is somewhat of a thrill for me. Maybe I need to get a life but anyway I thought this might interest some. I have in my possession a letter dated March 4th 1867. 142 years ago. Written from Philadelphia it's addressed to Dearest Rebecca. This letter contains an interesting view of the church and also shows us how people have stayed the same but the message has changed. The church in the past is nothing like it is today. Not for the better. The message 142 years ago and the message today. Let's get to the letter. In italics is the letter content, bold is how it would read today. It begins.

I am pleased to hear that you admired the Valentine I sent .... I never seen Valentines got up in so much style. I loved your Eharmony profile I am glad we could instant message each other.

I hope you are successful in obtaining a good Pastor to preach the unsearchable riches of Jesus Christ. I hope you can find a Lead Pastor with vision that can market your organization better and grow the church.

We are having a series of sermons on the death and burial of Christ. Next Sunday evening will be the thirteenth discourse, they are very interesting and instructive. Did you enjoy the Amazing Race on TV last Sunday night, I am so glad our church canceled Sunday nights, it was so boring.

This week is a week of prayer, for the outpouring of God's Spirit in our church. The morning celebration service carried on past 65 minutes this Sunday because they were having technical problems with the video clips, the pastor apologized and small group is canceled for the next several weeks so we can watch American Idol.

I attended a sociable at our pastor's home a few days ago where we had a very sociable time indeed. I talked to my pastor for the first time in a year at Walmart this Monday, I had a few questions he said he would answer them through his blog.

I have given up smoking at your kind request. I have started smoking again, the church I go to doesn't seem to care.

Two Blades of Grass

2009-02-23T07:39:00.000-08:00

How do you measure success in the things of God? A hard question to answer and put into words. But for the most part we as believers have answered it, even if we haven't vocalized it. Our answer has been for many years, popularity equals success. I know we haven't used those exact words but our actions have shown we believe the statement is true. We flock to the biggest churches, we buy the best selling books, we watch the most popular and support them further by sending them our money. Our actions have determined what becomes popular whether we realize it or not. And that's just your typical lay person. (lay person?, I bet you haven't heard that term in years) To make matters worse, our church leaders look for what's popular so they, and or their organizations, can benefit from it also. Who's the hot speaker? Let's have him speak at our convention, they'll flock to it. Who's the hot author? We'll market a sermon series on it. The snowball keeps rolling down the hill getting bigger and bigger. But you and I started the ball rolling.

Where does that leave the little church, the small ministry, the unpopular voice? Many times they fall into despair and give up. Sometimes they get bitter, jealous and angry and become even more unpopular, to their own fault. But given a healthy perspective even the unpopular ones can be rest assured they are successful in God's eyes.

Here is a great sermon, by the prince of preachers Charles Spurgeon. This sermon was addressed to a body of ministers and students as his denomination was caving into the false modernist teachers of the day. His voice wasn't popular. Others were giving up. This is how he measured success.

We: are only responsible so far as our power goes, and it will be wise to use that power for some object well within reach. For the rest, let us not worry and weary about things beyond our line. What if we cannot destroy all the thorns and thistles which curse the earth; we can, perhaps, cleanse our own little plot If we cannot transform the desert into a pasture, we may at least make two blades of grass grow where only one grew before; and that will be something.

They used to call it Sunday School

2009-02-16T13:13:00.000-08:00

I'm not sure if this is really a "lost church" issue or a Christian parenting issue but it's something I want to get off my chest anyway. So my two cents on dating and marriage, biblically speaking. In Bible times marriages were arranged. Wise parents matched their sons and daughters for marriage, usually at a young age. For the most part marriages "worked". Although we know divorce was available and used. Things are different now. 50% of all marriages fail. Christian or not. Much of the remaining 50% of "successful" marriages are probably miserable ones. I think it's safe to say we know life in a day that has totally lost the meaning of marriage. This is an absolute shame since the church is referred to as the bride of Christ. Marriage is supposed to be a beautiful, peaceful thing. A holy union. The church is partly responsible for it's demise.

Some churches are trying to fix it. I applaud the effort. But they don't go far enough. It is now common for churches to offer pre-marital counseling for couples that have decided to wed. In my opinion this may seem like a useful ministry but there may be a better option. Let me explain, and it's rather simple. Once a couple has decided to wed, especially a younger couple, they are usually head over heels in love. History suggests that no matter what counseling takes place, even if it's advisable for the relationship to terminate, the wedding will happen anyway. Pre-marital counseling becomes a mere formality, nothing is really learned and real issues are ignored especially if it threatens the relationship. The counselor, if it's the couples Pastor, may refuse to marry the couple. The solution, they just find another Pastor. You see, "love" is motivating the couple. Sound judgment has been traded for passion, romance and even lust. No counseling will stop that.

The answer to this problem is not pre-marital counseling or pre-pre-marital counseling. Couseling is good but real change takes place long before that. All churches, and I mean ALL churches, need to be teaching the fundamentals of healthy relationships long before a couple is formed. Starting at age 4 continuing throught the teen years all the way to adulthood. These classes are for parents and their children. The church isn't going to be around when a Jonas brother look alike comes knocking on your daughter's door. The parent will be, hopefully. So these classes aren't necessarily geared for the teenagers and college age kids, but for the parents too. Oh, and by the way, if a parent isn't in love with Jesus these classes won't work. Hmmm, I'm thinking the church passed on these classes years ago. Too old school, too traditional. I think they used to call these classes Sunday School.

The other solution is we can go back to arranged marriages. I understand in the Indian culture it's still practiced and quite successful. Pick one.

2009-02-12T10:30:00.001-08:00

Understanding Heresy some clarification

2009-01-28T09:30:00.000-08:00

I will either remove or edit some previous posts on The Shack. Perhaps I used the term "heresy" incorrectly. If I did I do apologize to William P Young and if I offended anyone. I think I am in no position to declare the end result of The Shack heresy, based on the NT understanding of the word. Even though I have not read the entire novel I do understand the premise and have read all of the portions in question. Many portions I have read are clearly contrary to the word of God and deserve to be rebuked. Some may ask why are you discussing this book when you have never read it? I can never read The Shack because Young portrays God as a woman. This is against the word of God. I agree with this review. PDF FILE.

The emotional power of The Shack depends upon aface-to-face encounter between God and man. God the Father is represented as Papa, an African-American woman; Jesus is in the form of a man of Middle-Easterndescent and the Holy Spirit is portrayed as an Asian woman named Sarayu. Yet the Bible is clear that God cannot and must not be portrayed in an image. It is impossible to make the creator a part of His creation and the Bible clearly and repeatedly forbids us from even attempting to do this. “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth,” says Jesus in John 4:24. The third of the Ten Commandments likewise forbids tempting to make any visual portrayal of God. To worship such an image, to acknowledge it as God or even to pretend it is God is to commit the sin of idolatry. It is to worship a creation rather than the Creator. So while Young's portrayal of Jesus may be based on some fact, his portrayal of the Father and the Holy Spirit in human form is sinful and expressly forbidden within the Bible. It is no small matter. Describing unrighteous people, the Apostle Paul says, “Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things” (Romans 1:22,23). While claiming to be wise, sinful men portrayed God in the image of man. Paul says that the wrath of God is poured out against all who would do such a thing. How then can we support such a portrayal of God in this book?

Based on this alone I will never read this book. I will not become emotionally involved in a story that is based on a false premise of God. But the question is, given this and the many other problems with the theology of this book is William P Young's intention to be a heretic? Is he trying to undermine the faith and lead others away from true Christianity? Of course he would say no. The problem is there is no way of really resolving that question since there is so much believers disagree about and it is highly unlikely William P. Young would agree to answer the charges against him in any organized manner.

This I do know. If you want to be moved emotionally about the love of God read the bible. Read the parable of the prodigal son. Read the story of alabaster box. If you do this there is no need to be concerned about heresy.

A Tale of a Rebellious Pastor's Kid

2009-01-27T04:17:00.000-08:00

I've been consuming countless amounts of information about The Shack the past few days trying to make sense of this phenomenon. Thank you very much for your help google. I think I am getting somewhere. Since the content of the book has been debated I am trying to determine the author's true intention in writing it. Who is this William P. Young anyway? What makes this guy tick? Strangely enough it turns out William P. Young and yours truly have more in common then I thought. From William P. Young's website.

My father worked as a Pastor for a number of small churches in Western Canada and by the time I graduated, I had already attended thirteen different schools. I paid my way through Bible College working as a radio disc jockey, lifeguard and even a stint in the oil fields of northern Alberta.

Hmmm, a pastor's kid and Bible school graduate. Sounds familiar. Pastor's kids truly are unique individuals and usually have an interesting story to be told. Their story usually goes something like this. As a kid they are in church all the time. Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday evening Bible study, Friday prayer meeting. They learn all the fundamentals of the faith at a very young age via Sunday School teachers using flannel graph boards. They usually can't stand the boredom. This boredom consumes them. Consequently, boredom becomes rebellion but goes relatively unnoticed by others. It's not an obvious rebellion that can be seen by others but its a quiet faith rebellion. They doesn't relinquish all faith but as time progresses they become more determined to develop a customized faith not willing to accept what the church has taught them about God. They now become anti-church but not anti-faith. As life brings more challenges their way this "new faith" begins to take shape. As Bible school graduates it's time to put this "new faith" to action. Most pastor's kids will plant a church. Not everyone. Some may right a book to express themselves. One thing leads to another and before you know it there is a best selling novel. A novel that reveals this new faith. A novel not base on the word of God but based on an anti-church understanding. All because of boredom. A tale of a rebellious pastor's kid. Leave it to them to stir the pot. A PK story I am all too familiar with. Hello, my name is Ian, I'm a pastor's kid and Bible School graduate trying to defend the faith not change it.

This I will never understand

2009-01-23T06:37:00.000-08:00

Concerning the controversial book The Shack by William P Young, here are some quotes by some well known Pastors, On one hand.........................

Mark Batterson, Pastor National Community Church, Washington DC:

Love it for lots of reasons. First of all, I love books that touch the emotions and inspire the imagination. This book does that. But it also has an amazing storyline that is really gripping. Serious props to William Young.

Perry Noble, Lead Pastor, Newspring Church, South Carolina:

In my opinion this book is an excellent piece of fiction writing that is loaded with some tricky theological issues. I’ve seen both positive and negative reviews on it…but I can say that, for the most part, I enjoyed it. It made me think…and I love books that make me do that. It will definitely cause you to look and God in an entirely different way.

Greg Surratt - Multi-site church pioneer:

Theologically I didn't see anything dramatically problematic...the author doesn't have a very high view of church...I think Jesus likes the church a little more than he would have you to believe.

On the other hand ................

Dr. Michael Youssef, Ph.D from Leading the Way:

After reading the popular novel, The Shack, I find it necessary to bring to light some of its errors. The book is like a deep ditch covered with beautiful flowers — and sadly, many Christians are falling into this ditch.

Dr. Albert Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

This book includes undiluted heresy.

Mark Driscoll, Pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle:

Regarding the Trinity, it’s actually heretical.

So what does one do when a loved one or friend comes walking in your house with this book? If you don't warn them of the heresy you open the door to potential spiritual problems. If you do say something you can be perceived as robbing a spiritual blessing. This I will never understand.

The Shack : Flirting with Heresy

2009-01-22T06:19:00.000-08:00

Our "Christian" bookstores are proof positive of the fear of boredom. Believers continually feel the need to keep their imaginations sparked and will even flirt with heresy to do so. Case in point the popular fictional novel The Shack by Paul Young. Michael Youseff exposed 13 heresies in the book, but it's still available in Christian bookstores and still a best seller. We are witnessing a generation of believers that have abandoned sound doctrine for a feel good faith. Religion is now considered evil. A favorite musician of mine Michael W. Smith says “The Shack will leave you craving for the presence of God.” I ask what god are we talking about?

Multi-Ethnic Churches

2009-01-07T18:07:00.000-08:00

I cringe when I think the church is lost in this area. There should be no place for racism in the believer's heart and not a hint of it found in the house of God. I find racism ugliest when it's attached to a believer. I hear the term multi-ethnic church bantered about today. How unfortunate. In the church it should go without saying. It did back in the 1960's and in the church I was part of for 35 years. This picture was taken in the mid 1960's, northeast New Jersey. That's my mother on the left and my sisters are seated. Not sure who the other people are but I'm sure it was a ministry related visit. My Dad took his camera everywhere. Part of the great Christmas 2008 35mm slide project.

2008: Blog in Review

2008-12-31T07:50:00.000-08:00

Looking back at 2008 here at ROTLC.

By far, the post that received the most attention was back in April, American Idol sings "Shout to the Lord". The "idols" failed to use the name of Jesus the first time they sang the popular chorus, the next day they did. What will Rick Warren do on January 20th?
I thought my best post was Another Seeker Church Repents. Granger Community Church revealed some staggering statistics after taking a Willowcreek-like survey. I predict more seeker churches will do the same in the future. When the growth stops discipleship starts.
If you need a break from the daily grind this will always help.
After viewing a sermon by a CCP holding a six pack and teaching the bible encourages the consumption of adult beverages I talked about the need for the church to return to the safe position of alcohol abstinence. I don't think my readers liked it too much. I you listened to the sermon I think you would care a bit more.
If you ever think this blog is just a bunch of hot air read The Tragedy of an Absentee Pastor. "Coming to a stranger’s house for dinner isn’t the high point of our lives". MY OH MY.

The Devil made me do It

2008-12-27T20:29:00.000-08:00

During my time blogging I have been exposed to a smorgasbord of theological opinions. Long before I was blogging I had become discontent with certain Pentecostal -Charismatic thoughts on a few topics. I am fully aware that there is real spiritual evil dimension. I am also aware that this includes demonic activity. However I am less inclined to blame the devil for a dead car battery or a lawn mower that won't start on a sneaky demon. Also if your not getting along with your spouse it's probably more of an indication of stubborn pride then demonic activity. Still very sinful. Demonic, I doubt it. That being said, too often there is a better explanation to what is happening in the spiritual realm then demonic activity. This is well worth the read. Not really a Pentecostal - Charismatic explanation but a biblical one nevertheless.

Be afraid, be very afraid

2008-12-24T12:07:00.000-08:00

Those are real live church people circa 1975. A cool church planters' worst nightmare. I'll be posting many more pictures of Christians in the days to come. Explanation soon to follow.

The Great Annual Christmas Quiz

2008-12-24T06:00:00.000-08:00

This is becoming somewhat of a tradition here at ROTLC, just as it was in a small pentecostal church in northern NJ for many years. This "surprise" quiz was given during the weekly Bible study on the Wednesday before Christmas. The tradition continues here. Enjoy. No cheating, no googling.

1. Is there any indication as to how old Jesus was when the Wise Men {Magi} came to Bethlehem?

2. What was the relationship between John the Baptist and Jesus as indicated in the birth accounts of Jesus? [Luke 1:36]

3. What was the reason the Wise Men (Magi) come to Bethlehem in the fist place?

4. In Mark’s gospel concerning the birth of Jesus how many Wise men were there?

5. Were the Wise men at the stable with the shepherds at the same time as so many Christmas scenes depict? If not how do we know?

6. In Luke 2:7 we read: "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn." What is a manger?

7. Why were Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem when Jesus was born in the first place?

8. In Luke 2:8 wen read "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Why were the shepherds living out in the fields keeping watch over their flocks by night?

9. What hymn did the angels sing when the shepherds were informed about Jesus birth?

10. What was Biblically unusual about the fact that Mary was about to have a baby when she and Joseph came to Bethlehem?

11. As question #8 may indicate, Jesus was not born in December. Why do we celebrate Jesus’ birth on December 25th?

12. Is it true that the names of the three wise men were Gaspar, Melchior and Balthazar? If these were not their names, what were their names?

13. Our Christmas scenes often portray snow. Was there any snow in Palestine when Jesus was born?

Church Growth is easy

2008-12-23T08:05:00.000-08:00

I like this quote by the prince of preachers Charles H. Spurgeon. If Spurgeon blogged today his thoughts would be labeled as critical and cowardice. He would be called a "blog stalker". That all wouldn't change the fact that what he said is and was true. You can read the entire sermon here.

In the next place, we do not consider soul-winning to be accomplished by hurriedly inscribing more names upon our church-roll, in order to show a good increase at the end of the year. This is easily done, and there are brethren who use great pains, not to say arts, to effect it; but if it be regarded as the Alpha and Omega of a minister's efforts, the result will be deplorable. By all means let us bring true converts into the church, for it is a part of our work to teach them to observe all things whatsoever Christ has commanded them; but still, this is to be done to disciples, and not to mere professors; and if care be not used, we may do more harm than good at this point. To introduce unconverted persons to the church, is to weaken and degrade it; and therefore an apparent gain may be a real loss. I am not among those who decry statistics, nor do I consider that they are productive of all manner of evil; for they do much good if they are accurate, and if men use them lawfully.

The True Meaning of Christmas

2008-12-11T15:59:00.001-08:00

I hope you enjoy this rendition of the famous Christmas song. In many ways it perfectly expresses on how I feel about Christmas. Two years ago churches couldn't open their doors because Christmas fell, on all days, Sunday. This year a Walmart employee is trampled to death by early morning door bashing shoppers hoping to score a bargain on that special gift. Merry Christmas!! Oh and BTW, the church, after a couple thousand years, is still trying to find the true meaning of Christmas. Maybe this is the year? Something tells me it won't.

What if the church was run like ..........?

2008-12-11T09:26:00.000-08:00

To my church planter friends,

These options have been bantered about. What if the church was run like Disney? What if the church was run like Starbucks? (Hands down the most popular.) What if the church was run like a sports team? What if the church was run like an airline? Talk amongst yourselves, make it cool, dream, innovate, impress your church planting buddies and fill in the blank. Listen, just because you have a pleasant shopping experience at the Apple Store, movie date night with your wife at Clearview Cinemas or vacation getaway on a Disney cruise does not mean the church needs to learn from it. I know the ideas must be jumping in your brain and the anxiousness to get home and try it on your guinea pig congregation is killing you. I fully know that Starbucks marketed itself in such a way that people will freely plop down $4.00 for a cup of coffee. But seriously, the church has something to learn from a coffee chain, a theme park or a transportation service? Here's the bottom line. If you, my church planter friends, can only see the church's shortcomings by visiting a business you have a serious problem. You see the purpose of a business is TO MAKE MONEY. And since you insist on always comparing the church to a business it makes me think that all you want to do is MAKE MONEY. Now that I got that off my chest I will go grab a cup of my home brewed local grocery store coffee.

Discernment Antennas Up!

2008-12-08T14:32:00.000-08:00

From time to time I feel the need to post something like this. It's good to, every once in awhile, address the purpose of my blog. Well, besides being a vehicle to "get things off my chest", the purpose of this blog is to inform on real problems that face the church. A little history may be in order. Several years ago my family and I were confronted with a "new" method of discipleship at the church we were at called G12. An uneasy feeling steadily grew as I learned more and more about what G12 teaches and as I witnessed the program dominate the church. The Internet became very helpful in making our final decision to leave the church. I was able to read countless numbers of testimonies, discuss issues in forums and even exchange emails with leaders in the movement. My discernment antennae (which every believer should use and I rarely felt the need to use at my father's church of 35 years) became very fine tuned. I know we avoided the possibility of many problems since my wife and I take ministry in His church very seriously. I know we made the right decision. BTW, shortly after we left we began to hear reports of entire A/G fellowships in South America banning the program, soon after a split in the G12 movement itself and now it's difficult to find any true G12 church. The decision to leave was very difficult for several reasons. First, I had family that was actively participating in the G12 movement. Secondly, the church was an Assembly of God church, the movement we had been part of our entire lives. Of course there are other A/G churches but I soon learned that it's important to keep your "discernment antennae up" at all times even in A/G churches that I trusted so much.

Our next stop was another A/G church, this time I came with the antennae up. Most of what I post here is from what I learned during our time there. I know ROTLC has helped a few people. Most importantly I trust what I write is true. In Sunday School we used to have Bible drills and they always started with the command, "swords up!" The Bible is still our best weapon but we also need discernment antennas. So I say, "Discernment Antennas up!" Oh and BTW if you think you don't need an antennae, here are some statistics, I just can't get past, from Granger Community Church the 6th most influential church in America.

47% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe in salvation by grace.

57% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe in the authority of the Bible.

56% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe Jesus is the only way to eternal life.

Preaching vs. story telling.

2008-12-04T07:33:00.000-08:00

Short post today, here's a quote from an article I just read.

Furthermore, Christians sometimes push too hard on "shoving" the gospel into stories and forget that people want to be entertained, adds Phil Cooke, president and creative director of Cooke Pictures. ...........“We need to be far more subtle in our storytelling,” he says. “After all, Jesus didn't tell ‘Christian’ stories. He told stories about people's lives, and they were powerful and compelling.”

Now I'm not going to deny that storytelling can be an effective way of sharing the gospel, but there is a reason that preaching has been the most effective method for the past 2000 years. I also have two sons that will give me a smack down if I diss Lord of the Rings. Important however, is keeping what Jesus did, in using the parables,in context. First of all who was telling the stories? Of course it was Jesus. After all the stories were all about Him. So the reason the parables were such an effective method for Jesus was because it was Him telling them! The central figure of each story, perhaps not spoken, was physically present before the listeners. The power must have been tremendous as the listeners minds are captivated and then drawn to the One telling the story. It's impossible to imitate this today. So I believe this movement to try an imitate what Jesus did will always fall a bit short. Also consider there is no evidence that story telling was a continued method in the NT church. The apostles didn't use parables to communicate the gospel, they preached. Additional food for thought. It seems that the Scriptures make a distinction between preaching and story telling. Instances when parables were used, the Bible says Jesus "spoke" to them. When repentance from sin is called for "preaching" is used. So does our culture need to hear the clear message of repentance?

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

The fear of spiritual boredom

2008-11-30T20:01:00.000-08:00

Fear is a powerful emotion. Fear can make people do some strange things. For my wife it's mice, for my oldest son it's circus clowns, my youngest son is afraid of bears and you never have to worry about yours truly attending a snake handling church. Perhaps the angels know this best. How many times in Scripture do we hear them say, "fear not." They probably have a few funny stories of people reacting in fear because of their sudden appearance. As we get older we learn to deal with our fears. If we don't deal with fear it can paralyze and ultimately destroy. A sign of maturity in life is controlling the emotion of fear. (FYI I'm still working on the snake thing.)

If only the church was so mature today. A powerful fear has a strangle hold on the church today. This fear is causing some very strange things to happen. You've read about them here. It's caused some believers to hop from church to church. It's caused other believers to pursue the "revival Jesus." It's caused some Pastors to preach from a king size bed. And it's even caused many churches to change the holy ordinance of baptism to a party bash. What fear is it? It's the fear of spiritual boredom.

Because this fear is so common and destructive to a church, the church has learned to do all that it takes to avoid the fear. Even the possibility of boredom causes some to shake in the pews. The church has long since learned immature and mature believers are given to the fear. If a service at the end of the month is too similar to one at the beginning of the month there must be a problem. If the problem isn't corrected shortly then, bye bye First Assembly and hello Starbucks Community Church. Oh but Starbucks Community is different. Starbucks Community has a parasitic type dependence on the fear. They think they have the antedote. They won't remain Starbucks Community for long. When the fear starts to surface Starbucks Community will release an upgraded version of itself. They'll be blitzing the doors to see Starbucks Community 2.0 and not long after that Starbucks Community 3.0. The upgrades keep coming to keep the interest alive and the fear of boredom dead.

Sadly, in many ways, churches like Starbucks Community stop being led by the Spirit and instead are led by the fear of spiritual boredom. Extreme measures are taken to avoid an innocent common thing such as boredom. Please point to the instructions in the Bible that tells us to avoid boredom. Last I checked boredom is not a sin. In fact what one believer finds spiritually boring may be exciting to another. For example, I have a hard time in the book of Numbers. But it's quite possible that another may enjoy reading, studying and hearing sermons on the book. As my father always said, "boredom is in the eye of the beholder." So even defining what's boring is difficult to do. The church is taking extreme measures to avoid something that isn't that harmful after all.

Now if boredom was really a problem in a church I can trust that a good pastor will deal with it when it shows it's innocent little head. Give him a chance. It's quite possible that boredom is being confused with the daily disciplines of our faith. If so a Pastor will make that distinction. But the fear of boredom is so warned about and avoided that even the routine expressions of the Christian faith are labeled as boring. Only those who have an "adventurous" Christian life are considered "Spirit-led." However too many times we know it's not the Spirit leading. Instead of boredom you get gimmicks, fads and even the unholy. I'd rather have holy boredom then unholy anything in the church.

Fear not! The fear of spiritual boredom can be relieved with a fight. As believers we need to learn to fight through our own spiritual boredom's, train ourselves to find the interesting in the uninteresting and most of all fight our need to always be entertained. Fight the fear by resisting the temptation to church hop. What's happening in another church may only be a temporary
fad manipulated by man. If we leave a faithful church for a faithless one we are allowing the fear to motivate us. First Assembly needs us more then Starbucks Community does. Hey, you may find Starbucks Community exciting, but version 2.0 may not be your cup of coffee (pun clearly intended) and may have you longing for First Assembly again. Fight the fear it's a sign of spiritual maturity.

********Before any comments please understand I'm in no way suggesting boredom is a desired end in our walk with Christ. And I do agree that spiritual boredom left unchecked for long periods of time could be an indication of a problem in a believer or a church's life. **********

The Two Most Popular Blog Comments

2008-11-26T05:58:00.000-08:00

Maybe you've seen or heard, on the news, the latest evangelical mega-church cool church pastor gimmick. This time the silliness comes via Ed Young Jr. Fellowship Church in Texas. Nothing new under the sun, just repackaged and marketed for media consumption. For your information Fellowship Church issued a media press release (or manipulated the story) for the festivities, weeks before Ed's challenge. The Associated Press ran with the story and away we go. Blogs are designed for stories like this and the debate hasn't disappointed anyone. I've been engaged in a few of these debates over the years, perhaps a few too many, and even hosted a few here on this humble space. Needless to say if there is a public name involved the discussion can get a bit heated. For some, naming names is the unpardonable sin. This has always baffled me. Ed Young can promote his silliness on CNN News which finds it's way in my living room, all in the name of God, but if I dare mention his name on this blog the nasty comments will be sure to follow. After following the debate on another blog it wasn't long before someone popped in with the standard defense talking points. The commenter used the two most popular comments you'll be sure to find when comments are getting too negative toward the public actions of a public minister. For the record here they are,

if you think Pastor Ed is doing something wrong, did you bother to approach him in private about your concerns before broadcasting your complaints publicly

and

Since Pastor Ed’s topic is more likely to get many unchurched (spell check highlighted) people into church where they will get saved, what does it matter if you think it’s a little over the top?

Let's deal with popular comment #1. Ed Young pastors a church of 20,000 members. He appears before millions via television, Internet and radio. He can say or do anything he wants and influence the masses. But if one of his listeners takes issue with something he says it's expected to schedule a private meeting with him before any public comments are released. This is just ridiculous. Just for fun try scheduling a meeting with Ed Young Jr. or any TV preacher with the understanding you have some complaints. Let me know how it goes.

Now for comment #2. "What does it matter if you think it’s a little over the top?" I wouldn't be so much concerned what a blogger thinks but I would be more concerned what God thinks. "is more likely to get many unchurched (spell check highlighted) people into church where they will get saved" This is pragmatism at it's worst, the fuel of the church growth movement. Let me ask this. How many people may never come to the Lord because they see this as a gimmicky stunt a-la Jim Bakker and Heritage USA? If the answer is one then it's one too many and shouldn't be done. Perhaps those who act like second graders and giggle over gimmicks like this should find some new arguments. The two most popular ones are getting tiring.

The Assembly of God's position on alcohol

2008-11-21T05:42:00.000-08:00

The A/G has responsibly taught abstinence for years. Most who attend an A/G church or carry credentials with the A/G laugh at the total abstinence position of the movement. If you dare read the position you can find it here. Here are few highlights with a sarcastic "fictional" anti-abstinence argument to boot. The A/G position is in bold.

Early documents of the church declare, without reservation or compromise, a position of total abstinence. There are early church documents?
For two reasons we urge all believers to avoid the Satanic tool of alcohol which destroys lives, damns souls, and blights society: Times have changed, anything short of sin and didn't you know sin can be used as an evangelistic tool.
The call to holy living and to total abstinence is most appropriate for a Movement that looks with expectation for the soon return of Jesus Christ and the eventual inauguration of His kingdom on earth. Guys don't you remember the blog futureag.com, we can change the movement so we can pack our multi-site churches with sipping saints.
Jesus spoke very clearly to the disciples about the responsibility of the older generation to its children and youth: Older generation? Your kidding me right?
If we draw the line at the point of moderation, our ministers will soon find it necessary to exhort congregations to forsake drunkenness. Don't ask don't tell. We never touch the topic, pretend there is not an alcohol problem in our communities and instead spin a four part sermon series off the latest James Bond flick.
We call upon every member and adherent in our Fellowship, including both the ministry and the laity, to teach by word and example a life-style that abstains totally from the consumption of alcoholic beverages. I can drink to that.

What Billy Sunday thought of moderate drinking

2008-11-19T17:51:00.000-08:00

Recently I had to part with (for a tidy sum) an autographed picture of Billy Sunday, a rare find. Billy Sunday was a famous professional baseball player who turned down a $5000 year salary playing ball to preach for under $100 a year. Sunday was noted for his messages against alcohol consumption of any kind. Here is an excerpt from one of his famous sermons on the topic. Enjoy.

I said to my friend, "George, do you see that old drunken bum, down and out? There was a time when he was just like you. No drunkard ever intended to be a drunkard. Every drunkard intended to be a moderate drinker." "Oh, you're unduly excited over my welfare," he said. "I never expect to get that far." "Neither did that bum," I answered. I was standing on another corner less than eight months afterward and I saw a bum coming along with head down, his eyes bloodshot, his face bloated, and he panhandled me for a flapjack before I recognized him. It was George. He had lost his job and was on the toboggan slide hitting it for hell. I say if sin weren't so deceitful it wouldn't be so attractive. Every added drink makes it harder.

Jesus, always right on time

2008-11-19T05:26:00.000-08:00

Let's assume, for sake of argument, the wedding at Cana had become a Budweiser bash. Notice how the story begins,

1 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”

So this is my theory of what happened at Cana. It is very different from what the cool church pastors want you to believe about Jesus. It seems Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the caterer for the wedding. She was probably a relative of the bride or groom and as family had the huge responsibility of making sure things ran smoothly. Wedding celebrations lasted several days during this time, perhaps this kept the window of opportunity open as long as possible for many guests to come. Knowing that the good wine is served first many would come on the first day. Of course the alcoholics would waiting in line. So day one must have been the drunken party that our cool church pastors speak so fondly of. We know by the third day the wine had run out. Not only had the wine run out but the drunks now were sipping coffee nursing their hangovers.

Notice verse 1, "....and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples" The language seems to suggest the mother of Jesus was already there but Jesus was just "invited". Mary had to be there for the entire event, she was in charge of the food, but Jesus didn't. Jesus could come and go as He pleased. So when did He come? The story begins "on the third day". Again this is my theory. Jesus wasn't there on the first day when the good wine was served and the Budweiser bash was in progress. The Jesus I know would rebuke that behavior. So Jesus comes late, Why? He came late to avoid the drunken party but also celebrate with the bride and groom. Now this is the Jesus I know, always right on time. This understanding could also shed some light on what Jesus meant when He said, "My hour has not yet come." The Jesus, who's "hour had come", would rebuke the drunkenness of the party. But Jesus was not yet ready to launch a public ministry and thus avoided the early days of the celebration. Eventually He couldn't resist the difficulty His mother was in and performed the miracle keeping it known only to a few servants. Whether they blabbed or not we don't know.

This explanation is just as Biblical as the one offered by our cool church preacher. The preacher wants us to view a partying Jesus that is comfortable hanging with sinners AS THEY ARE SINNING. Something we don't know for sure ever happened. Isn't this what Jesus does with all who need Him? He comes to us when He is invited but never comes to approve of our sin. But we do know from the rest of Scripture that Jesus is always right on time. It's the Jesus walking on the water, the Jesus at Lazarus' tomb the Jesus with the women caught in adultery. Jesus, always right on time.

Was the Wedding at Cana a drunken party?

2008-11-18T05:53:00.000-08:00

For what it's not worth I will share my thoughts about the Wedding at Cana. When you read the account in John's gospel you may get the impression the celebration had become a drunken party. The Greek text seems to support this claim.

John 2:10 And he said to him, Every man at the beginning sets forth good wine, and when men have drunk well, then that which is worse. You have kept the good wine until now.

The Greek word methuo is used in the verse, it clearly means to be drunk. Given this definition, some preachers, including our cool church pastor friend, understand this portion of scripture to suggest it was commonplace and acceptable for drunkenness to be present at first century Jewish weddings. Since these celebrations lasted many days, the best booze is brought out first then when everyone is drunk the celebration continues with the bad stuff because the senses have been dulled and and no one will know the difference. Why waste the good stuff on a bunch of drunks when they won't know the difference anyway? This explanation seems to make some sense. But this understanding places some doubt on the many warnings of drunkenness in the Scripture. Is it OK to get drunk at a wedding despite the warning of scripture? David Wilkerson offers an interesting explanation, from Sipping Saints,

I can't conceive that Jesus would mock that crowd and serve a drink that could have been abused if taken immoderately. I believe that elixir Jesus served was the pure juice of the vine - a supernatural punch so full of nature's true blend, it was a unique and welcome change! Would Jesus add alcoholic content to His supernatural drink and make it "bite the cup" when the law said -

"Look not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright . . ." (Proverbs 23:31)?

An interesting theory. There other possibilities to explore in this story that our cool church failed to address and I will get to them shortly.

Faith supersedes culture

2008-11-12T05:26:00.000-08:00

I've heard this one, maybe you have to. "Come on, a little vino with-a my-a spaghetti and-a meataballs-a wont-a hurt-a anyone-a." It's harmless they say, a cultural thing. The only problem is the church they belong to teaches abstinence where there are recovering alcoholics. The denomination they belong to teaches abstinence. Also they probably have a story or two they won't tell you that includes Uncle Vinny dancing around half naked with a lampshade on his head. Somehow that little glass of wine becomes something much bigger. If something so small becomes so big that it can't be given up there is a problem. The Bible calls it idolatry. 1 Corinthians 10:7

Let's stop being idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to play."

I heard a great sermon on this topic not too long ago. The point of the message was, faith supersedes culture. Somehow the church has excused the behavior of some because it's accepted in their culture. This ugliness is often displayed at "Christian" weddings. In our culture it's normal to have an open bar at wedding receptions. I guess the electric slide is much more enjoyable if the booze is plentiful. To the disgrace of many believers, christian newlyweds all too often succumb to the cultural pressures and allow the booze to flow freely just hours after they exchanged vows in a sacred ceremony. They never drank before nor will they drink afterwards, but for one day it becomes permissible. Why? It's a cultural thing. What a shame.

Faith must supersede culture and the church must defend the faith. This doesn't only apply to the alcohol topic but includes a host of other topics. The culture likes a rock concert atmosphere in the church, no, faith supersedes culture. The culture likes Starbucks, even in church, no, faith supersedes culture. The culture opens gifts and spends time with family on Christmas Sunday, no, keep the church doors open, faith supersedes culture. Sadly, for too long, culture has superseded faith. This must change.

Philippians 1:27
Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel

HOW THE MESSAGE HAS CHANGED

2008-11-11T08:02:00.000-08:00

Oh, how the message has changed. I guess this is my main point in bringing up the alcohol issue. I can get entangled in Greek and Hebrew words for wine and argue what "fruit of the vine" means. I can debate what really happened at the wedding at Cana. Perhaps Jesus drank alcohol. You can't prove it, but maybe He did. This topic may interest a few and anger some others. Obviously alcohol was available in the Bible. It probably wasn't as potent as the booze today. So the church has responsibly preached abstinence for years. As believers we are considered priests. We have a higher calling. Timothy needed Paul's permission to drink a little wine. Paul granted him permission, that is his Christan liberty. No sin involved. But the message that governed Timothy 's life was abstinence. I like what the prince of preachers, Spurgeon, said in 1890:

What is now called wine is a very different liquid from that which our Lord divinely produced. We use our Christian liberty to abstain from wine, and we judge that our Savior would approve of our avoiding that which, in these days, makes our brother to offend. We who quit the intoxicating cup of to-day have our ways of viewing our Master’s action in this instance, and we do not find it difficult to see wisdom and holiness in it; but even if we could not so interpret what he did, we should not dare to question Him. Where others cavil, we adore.

The message is quite different today. Christian liberty is used to indulge, to have a cold one with the boys, to hang at the local Chilis bar, all with the encourgement of our preachers. No wonder these churches are packed. If you don't like the abstinence of the Assembly of God or the SBC go to your local cool church and you can drink to your heart's content. Just don't get drunk. Anything short of sin with a pat on your back from your pastor. In his eyes, you're a common booze drinking volunteer. In God's eyes you're a holy priest with a divine calling drafted in the King's army. What a difference, how the message has changed!!!!

Fruit of the Vine

2008-11-10T18:23:00.000-08:00

Still on the question did Jesus drink alcohol? Most would claim He must have. Wine was found on the typical Jewish passover table, so of course Jesus drank alcohol. And how about the Last Supper?

Matthew Chapter 26: Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.29 I tell you, from now on I shall not drink this fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father."

Is this evidence that Jesus drank alcohol? I think not. Notice how Jesus uses "fruit of the vine" to describe the cup. He doesn't use the Greek word for wine "oinos". This link offers an excellent explanation of the significance of the use of words. Well worth the read and I learned from it. I hope you do also.

Did Jesus drink alcohol?

2008-11-07T19:18:00.000-08:00

If you listened to the sermon I linked to, by Gary Lamb, pastor of Revloution Church, about Christians and alcohol you heard the text-book cool church planter message when a liberal stance on a controversial topic is taken. The first part of the message is a series of warnings and threats aimed at those who may disagree with him. Then as he eases into his message he comforts his listeners with the promise he will teach only what the Bible has to say on the topic. Quickly, however he strays from the word of God and injects his own opinion into the message. This leaves his listeners in a no win situation. They have been told not to dare disagree or if you do shut up. But then the word of God is treated poorly so where do you go from there? Well, in my case, and in others, after several years of this attitude you leave in search for a faithful church.

Of everything that was said in that message, the one that really jumped out at me and grabbed my attention was the bold statement, something to the effect, that Jesus drank alcohol. The verse that the Pastor used to support this accusation was Matthew 11:19.

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

I have heard this verse used many times, by our cool church planters, to suggest many things about our Lord and Saviour. For example, maybe who've heard these statements about Jesus, "He hanged out with sinners" and "didn't preach in the synagogues but hanged out at wells". Basically the idea behind this thinking is the Jesus that has been presented to us by the "traditional church", for hundreds of years, is a tamed down, refined and genteel Jesus. We, as churched people, have been protected by our leaders from the "real" maverick, rebel, Jesus. But our cool church planters know the truth and are willing to let the secret out of the bag. Well, I would be more willing to accept this if it were actually true.

Let's take Matthew 11:19, that our Pastor friend used and examine it to see what it really says. First of all, who was it that was making these statements about Jesus? The context is very clear that these are His adversaries trying to discredit Jesus. Even if we didn't know who was making them we know the statements aren't true! Why? Jesus never got drunk, nor was He a glutton, he knew no sin. So what is the Pastor's point in using this verse to teach drinking in moderation? Well, he is trying to suggest that it must have been common knowledge that Jesus drank alcohol (in moderation) or they would have never accused him of the sin of drunkenness in the first place. This argument has serious problems and the Pastor is making the same mistake Jesus' opponents did 2000 years ago. The mistake of jumping to conclusions. We can not assume that just because Jesus associated with drunks He drank alcoholic wine. If so can we also say that His association with prostitutes proves He was pimp? Or His association with Pharisees proves He was a Pharisee? Of course not. We don't know what was in His cup at the table with these people. So why are we taking the lies of those who hated Jesus and using them as a basis to teach a truth about Him? This makes no sense but this I do know. Nowhere in the Bible is there conclusive evidence that Jesus drank alcohol. Well how about the wedding at Cana you ask? I'll talk about that next time.

I Don't Drink Beer but Cool Church Pastors want me to

2008-11-06T14:10:00.001-08:00

Enjoy.

Should Christians Drink Alcohol?

2008-11-04T18:36:00.000-08:00

Awhile ago I listed a few hot topics I wanted to discuss here on this humble space. I will get to the drinking topic soon. A topic that surely has been debated in the church for years. If you get the time, to help understand where I coming from, watch this video, by Gary Lamb pastor of Revolution Church. As always, when I discuss something on this blog, my intention is not to isolate one church or pastor. I can guarantee you, messages like Gary's are being preached by many others in the cool church planting world. In turn, others will preach similar messages, and so on, and so on. Not many will stop, search and test if what they are teaching is actually true or examine the motivation behind it. I will. Should be interesting and hopefully worthwhile.

You can't sue God

2008-10-15T06:19:00.000-07:00

This one made my head spin. Nebraska Sen. Ernie Chambers, an atheist, filed a lawsuit against God. The courts threw the case out. I don't even know where to begin with this one. But I will say this, Nebraska Sen. Ernie Chambers will see God in court one day, he better have Jesus on his side.

Innovating the Innovated

2008-10-06T20:03:00.000-07:00

I'm 40 years old, yeah I know I'm getting up there. I keep it in perspective since there is an ugly rumor out there that I'm really 53. I've had some bad things said about me but that rumor hurt the most, by far. Nevertheless, all of those 40 years have been spent in the church. I am (was) a pastor's kid for most of those years. It's safe to say I am "churched". (churched currently spell check highlighted) Because of this experience I've learned to speak a different language when it come to the things of the church. A language that outsiders would perceive as strange. For example, I refer to the women in the church, Sisters. I call the men in the church, Brothers. Another example is I've learned to use the term "of the flesh". If someone offers something as worship to God but the motivation is really to draw attention to themselves it's "of the flesh", or better said it's to satisfy the sinful nature. There is a long list of these terms but I think you get my point. I have never had a problem with this language. I am accustom to it. I am also smart enough not to speak the language in other settings. I learned quickly that those outside the church don't understand the language. (I think it was in third grade, on the school playground when I told my fellow "brothers" listening to Black Sabbath they were "of the flesh" when I got the clue I better shut up) So in the church and with fellow believers I speak a church language. And with those who aren't believers I don't speak the church language or if they are astute enough to ask, I'll explain. This has worked for many many years.

Some think the language is hypocritical or phony while others think it's goofy and a turn off to unbelievers. So leave it to the innovators to make the changes and boy have the ever. Perhaps you have noticed a change in the language? Some have replaced "sin" and use the word "entropy" instead. Some have decided "Christian" has a negative meaning and the new term is "Christ follower". Pastors are "life coaches" and when was the last time you heard the word "deacon"? These changes have even touched our most holy of things in the church. Baptisms are now tail gate "bashes" and you can have "sky-diving communion" if you want. Don't worry the methods change but the message stays the same, they say. Or does it? So which is it and who's right? Does is really make a difference what words we use when we're talking about the things of God? Is terminology that important?

Of course if you have read this blog for any length of time I have made the contention that terminology is extremely important. Some things can not be innovated or changed. Not everything is up to experimentation. Try and try all you want but some things will resist innovation. The terms we use aren't a created church language but a passed on down biblical language. Sin is sin not because the "church" has made it that way but because God used the term through His word. If it's good enough for God it should be good enough for us. Now even the innovators are noticing the disservice the changes are making. From a popular innovator, Mark Batterson,

By the way, I don't love the word "volunteer". Any churches call their
"volunteers" something else? It just doesn't seem to capture the heart or skill
or passion of the people who serve.

People who serve? Is this the word your looking for Mark, servants? Congratulations Ian you've won a free prize! And I don't even have a best selling book. Please don't get me started on this one. I have been screaming about this for years. THE CHURCH IS NOT A VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION. Ever hear that before? The Red Cross has volunteers, so does the PTA. The church has servants, that's the term God used.

2 Corinthians 6:4 Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses;

I'm sorry, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This all would be funny if I didn't think some of those "volunteers" really viewed themselves as "volunteers". But many do. So now we're innovating the innovated words to match the biblical terms. Servants became volunteers just to become servants again, all under the innovation experiment. We have gone in a full circle. Can't you see how a lot of this innovation stuff leads to nowhere only to return back to it's roots? Somehow I think we can be more productive in His kingdom instead of looking for anything and everything to innovate. Somehow I think the real will be back before you know it. Perhaps the hymns will be back and Pastors will be wearing suits and ties. I'm sure they will call it innovation. Oh my oh my. What have we become?

It's not a game

2008-09-23T06:23:00.000-07:00

Notice how easy the conversion is? From another article on the growing Wicca religion.

With the popularity of such shows as ‘Buffy', and the blockbuster success of the Harry Potter series, it isn't surprising that more people are turning to new belief systems, including witchcraft. Wizardry and witchcraft have not just become cool; they've also become fun. There is a certain charm to dressing up in robes and wearing a top hat in public, or trying to write a spell while sitting in a circle. And lest
critics let fly that these girls are going to somehow channel the devil, let it
be said that witchcraft and the pop culture behind it make it a point to distinguish between right and wrong.

That Innocent Little Sorcerer

2008-09-22T10:02:00.000-07:00

What was his name? You know, that innocent little sorcerer that was the main character in the series of books by that Rowling lady? I just can't remember. They also made a series of movies about his life. Cute little guy. I talked about him in ROTLC version 1.0. They made a bunch of action figures depicting him and his fellow sorcerers. Help me, the name escapes me. I warned believers not to help promote the cute little wizard even though he was all the rage in our culture. My fellow believers told me not to worry, it's all fiction and innocent. Some even suggested you can find God in his stories. It's on the tip of my tongue but just can't remember. He wore glasses, black hair, I can see him but forget his name. All innocent fun, fiction, geared toward the young reader, "don't worry Ian your over reacting", they said. Elementary schools read all the books. Not my kid, he wouldn't bow to that idol. It's coming. I think I remember now. Oh I read this and it helped. This is what I was writing about, this is what I warned about Oh and it's not fiction anymore.

Wicca is the fastest-growing religion in America, set to be the third largest
religion by 2012.

What was his name? Oh I think I remember now, anyone else?

When the growth stops discipleship starts

2008-09-18T07:21:00.000-07:00

Sometimes I just want to scream!!!! Nothing burns me up more then the spin surrounding this Reveal study that mega-church pastor Bill Hybels released last year. I really just can't take it anymore. I read this article just now and I almost lost it. Here are several quotes that raised my blood pressure, Hybels says,

"You can imagine my reaction when three people whose counsel I value told me
that the local church I've been the pastor of for more than three decades was
not doing as well as we thought when it came to spiritual growth,"

Now 140 over 90, the article goes on,

Was it hurtful when bloggers misunderstood [and] spread bad stuff? Yes," Hybels told pastors at the Summit. "Would I pay the price all over again in order for the church to make the gains it did in the last year? Dumb question. Of course I would."

Now 160 over 100, the article goes on,

Since the Willow Creek pastor revealed the findings to his church and admitted
to making a “mistake,” many reports and bloggers have made inaccurate
assessments and misunderstandings have abound.

180 over 120, am I alive? Now I'm no rocket scientist, nor the son of a rocket scientist but what is there to misunderstand about the word "mistake"? A mistake is a mistake and when one admits it and announces it to the entire world one should expect some commentary. So why is Hybels whining? Am I to believe Hybels is being completely honest with us when he tells us he was shocked when the spiritual lackings of his system was revealed? Am I to believe that for 30 years he didn't notice the spiritual lacking of his seeker- sensitive church system? After all, there were, dare I say, thousands of seeker-sensitive "critics" during those 30 years. Am I to believe he didn't hear one of them, he didn't evaluate the claims of any of his "critics? Am I to believe that it wasn't until his three buddies gave him a smack-down that he realized things were not going well at WillowCreek? Sorry, I am having a hard time believing that. If Bill wants to set the record straight I invite him to.

So, I have a theory. It could be wrong but don't think so. This whole Reveal thingy is a smokescreen for the natural progression of a master seeker-sensitive church plan. It's spinning the truth. I believe Bill knew all along, looking at statistical projections, his church would eventually peak in attendance. Numerical growth would eventually stall based on the population of the geographic area and other factors. This is true of any church. When attendance has reached it's peak and church growth is no longer the goal the focus now becomes discipleship. So when the growth stops discipleship starts. That's the seeker-sensitive way. Not to be confused with the biblical way. So this Reveal study is another way of saying we are now going to be biblical but let's spin it as a shocking revelation. And sell a few books while we're at it. That's the tragedy of this entire thing. That's what makes me want to scream. Hybels admitted a mistake but doesn't really want to face the main reason of the failure.

Of course we know from reading the bible that the beginning, middle and end is all about discipleship. Go into all the world and make DISCIPLES. That is the great commission. Not go into all the world and draw a crowd. It's so simple. The only way we can mess it up is by innovating what doesn't need to be innovated. Read and write all the books you want on the subject but making disciples is all about loving people. You can't love them unless you know them. You can't know them if your church is the size of a small city. Done and out.

Jesus a community organizer?

2008-09-17T07:46:00.000-07:00

This post is a home run as far as I am concerned. And the following quote a grand slam. Yes, I'm a baseball fan.

Why do you think so many churches have done away with biblically or
denominationally distinctive names and chosen instead generic and benign titles
like “Community Church” to describe their fellowship while embracing a blasé
attitude toward sin and rebellion?

Todd Palin Interview on Fox

2008-09-15T10:10:00.000-07:00

FYI. The FOX interview with Todd Palin, the one I humbly requested here at the cozy confines of Raiders of the Lost Church, will happen tonight. It's a can't miss, or you can watch the Jesus is my friend video 20 more times, either way you can't go wrong.

I rest my case

2008-09-11T16:57:00.001-07:00

See what happens when you throw the hymnals out of the church? I rest my case

The difference between "Church" and "The Church"

2008-09-09T06:18:00.000-07:00

Here is the bottom line. I think I can explain why we've gotten into this whole "seeker" church mess to begin with. It's all based on a simple question, Who is church for? Well, if you ask me, the answer is quite simple, here is my short answer. The purpose for church (the assembling together of the saints) on Sunday is to edify, encourage, strengthen and educate the body of Christ so it can be effective in carrying out the mission of the church during the week. Notice in that sentence there were two aspects, church and the church. Don't confuse the two, same word but two different concepts. We never stop being the church but church stops and starts. Church happens once, twice, or maybe three times a week, the church happens all week long. Problems start when you confuse the two. When you confuse the two church becomes something it wasn't intened to be. Instead of singing the hymn "Take my life and let it be" we sing "Let it be" by the Beatles. All in the name of evangelism. I can go on and on but hopefully you get my point.

Of course there is a confusion and when you try to sort it out it becomes even more confusing. For example, let's take a look at how Tim Stevens, author of the book Pop Goes the Church, answered the very direct question "Who is church for?" From a recent blog entry he said.

I love the way you ask the question! As I'm sure you know, there are all kinds
of philosophies on why the church exists. I believe
that the purpose of the church comes down to five
things, and they are found in the great commission (Matthew 28:19-20) and the
great commandment (Matthew 22:37-40). We have built our ministry at Granger
around doing these five purposes. They are...

Now I won't disagree with Tim on his understanding of the purpose of the church. We are on the same page. But did you notice Tim didn't really answer the question? Did you notice how he shifted the question? The questioner never asked about the purpose of the church. The questioner asked who was church for. I thought the question was clear, but if I relied on Tim's answer I would still be confused.

Now I don't know if Tim's failure to answer the question was intentional or not. I'll let you decide. If my answer is correct it has significant implications for Tim, especially his book Pop goes the church. That's a big retraction. So I can understand why he may not really want to answer the question. But don't we deserve an honest answer? Given the fact that Granger Community Church is influencing thousands of other churches across the country shouldn't a fundamental question like "Who is church for?" be answered? And if it has can we hear it? Wouldn't it be nice if all church leaders really understood the difference between church and the church? I know the difference, how about you?

I didn't say it

2008-09-08T12:59:00.000-07:00

but I've heard this story a million times. And we bring this music into our churches? Read the sermon here:

He removed the foreign altars and the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles.”

Shortly after I got saved I was convicted about the type of music I was
listening to so I remember smashing several albums (does anyone remember
LP’s?) and taking a scissors to my 8-Track Tapes. I could no longer listen
to Black Sabbath or sing along to AC/DC’s “Highway to Hell” when I knew most
of my friends were headed there. ...............................What kind of grade would you give yourself for this first test? To what degree are you completely consecrated? Anything you need to stop doing? What do you need to smash, remove or cut down? Anything you need to start doing? God strengthens those who are sold out to Him.

Todd Palin can we hear from you please?

2008-09-05T18:39:00.000-07:00

We interrupt the regularly scheduled programming here at ROTLC for a political thought. The storm (Hurricane left wing media) may have already passed over the GOP this week but there still remains a controversy swirling around Senator John McCain's Vice President pick Sarah Palin. Unnecessary controversy that I think it can be resolved pretty easily. Sarah, being a mother of 5, one with special needs, is being pressed by political opponents as to whether she will be able to provide the care and attention needed for her family and also work in the position of Vice President of the United States. Can she or can't she? The answer is obvious, she can't. The job is too demanding and will require her to travel extensively. No mother can juggle these tasks alone. Thankfully all is not lost. Sarah has a capable husband Todd who can fill in the gap. Hmmmmm there's a novel idea. So to put this baby to rest(no pun intended) can we please hear from Todd Palin? It would be nice to learn for ourselves that he is devoted to his children and not a blithering idiot that will be shooting pool and playing poker while his kids are running rampid. I know this won't be the case but it would be nice to know. Perhaps a nice sit down interview with the folks at Fox will do the job. My name is Ian and I approve this message.

Even in the name of the lost

2008-09-04T06:43:00.000-07:00

By far, the comment I receive most frequently on this blog, by those who oppose my views, is expressed somewhat like this: "There are millions of lost people out there, we are just trying to reach them, why are you opposed to that?" For the most part, those who leave these comments really never read my blog. They google search a name or a church and briefly scan the posts for that name. If what they read is less then positive they write the standard, "in the name of the lost" defense, never really dealing with the content of the post. First of all, let's get this straight, I am not opposed to anyone coming to Christ. My hope and prayer is that everyone would come to love the truth of gospel which leads to salvation. However, I know form scripture and from seeing for myself not all who make a declaration of faith continue in the faith. This is true even when the gospel is presented in a clear and powerful way. How much more is this true when a watered-down gospel is preached? The declarations of faith are often based on other factors, not the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Some start in the faith and fall away. Knowing this, isn't it of the highest priority for those entrusted with the gospel to handle it in a responsible way?

There is some good news. The "anything short of sin", "everything is an experiment","there are different kinds of people so there should be different kinds of churches" gospel being preached today, all in the name of the lost, is finally starting to face some discernment. Some are seeing the light. Here is an article about Evergreen Community Church in Portland Oregon who desires to keep their gatherings small and needed to decide on changes. They went multi-site but decided against the common video feed multi-site model,

"The celebrity church must die. And doing anything – like video venues – that
prolongs its life, even in the name of the lost, runs counter to the best
interests of the Church in all its expressions, big and small, and its mandate
to see more people not only reached, but gifted, trained, and sent," he added.

Even in the name of the lost! Wow. That's what Jesus said when the crowd was following him after he fed the 5000. He looked at them and told them they were following Him for the wrong reasons, for the food. Some say, But HE had a crowd!!!! But even in the name of the lost He wasn't happy with that and the word tells us they followed Him no more. Eventually "seeker" churches, celebrity churches, video churches will have to come to grips with this article. Somehow I think there is a "don't ask don't tell" policy in place in some churches. Just look at the numbers prepare for next weekend, It's going to be the best ever. That is until they take a poll and look at the ugly numbers. Thanks for reading, I'm out.

Another Seeker Church Repents?

2008-09-01T08:06:00.000-07:00

There is some bad news and some good news in this story. First the bad. Another poll, more telling results and another seeker sensitive revelation and strategy shift. Last time it was the Bill Hybels led Willowcreek Church, this time it's the Mark Beeson - Tim Stevens led Granger Community Church. Here are the results, and none of them surprise me. Approximately 5000 people attend Granger, 1500 responded to the online survey.

57% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe in the authority of the Bible.
56% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe Jesus is the only way to eternal life.
47% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe in salvation by grace.

Of course this is the bad news. These numbers all have eternal consequences behind them. To be honest, I would venture to say the statistics would be very similar if the poll was conducted inside Yankee Stadium. So what's the difference between attending a seeker sensitive church and going to a ball game? To their credit Granger is unhappy with these numbers. But if they are serious about changing them I have a suggestion for Granger and other seeker sensitive churches. READ MY BLOG!!!!!!!! You'll find the solutions are easier then you think.

Now for the good news. I have always contended here, at ROTLC, that a simple admission would make me very happy. Notice the title of my blog. Raiders of the lost CHURCH. When I write here, my concern has always been about the church of Jesus Christ and what happens in it. But if it's not a church I really have little concern, at least to write about it. So out of these poll results came somewhat of an admission from Tim Stevens, Executive Pastor of Granger. From his blog, Tim said,

At Granger, we build a weekend experience to draw the biggest crowd possible,
because we believe that if more people hear the gospel, more people will
respond. But we don't for a minute believe that a crowd is a church.

This is the same admission my former seeker sensitive Pastor gave me when I discussed these issues with him and ultimately led to our departure. So if what Tim is saying is true we could start seeing some tangible changes at Granger. For example at least for the weekends, "church" will be eliminated on Granger's signs, web sites, material etc. Or use and asterisks next to church with an explanation. Granger is very tech savvy I am sure they can make it work. I'm not holding my breath about the changes, but all in all I'll take this admission as good news. Of course if these honest revelations of flaws in the seeker strategy continue I would hope these organization would beconsistent with their message. I would expect them to stop trying to influence the real churches. Granger, Willowcreek etc I have a message for you:

Please leave the church that is trying to be faithful to the word of God alone. They are committed to being churches ALL THE TIME. They don't need your resources and innovations to learn how to attract a crowd. You should be learning from them on how to be a church. Not the other way around.

Since Reveal type announcements seem to be the vogue thing I am sure we will be hearing from another seeker church soon. Who's next?

The "Amazing Grace" was a bar tune argument

2008-08-30T06:17:00.000-07:00

The poor poor hymnal. When contemporary christian music gained in popularity it didn't stand a chance. As more and more Christians started moving and grooving at rock concerts on Saturday the hymnal couldn't meet the challenge on Sunday. So out went the hymnal, through the back door on it's Fanny J Crosby. Now the hymns are in the sole possession of the Gaithers and they're making a fortune! (a little ROTLC humor) That was years ago but we keep beating them poor ole hymns today. Perhaps you have heard this ugly rumor spreading through the church, a rumor of Bubble Yum spider egg size proportion, "Amazing Grace was written to the tune of a bar song". This rumor has stopped many a churched (churched currently spell check highlighted) person in their tracks leaving them at the mercy of U2 and Gun's & Roses in the house of God a little longer. Only if it were true.

I did extensive research (thank you Google) on this topic and couldn't find anywhere the connection with a bar song. In fact the tune of Amazing Grace has changed so many times over the past 200 plus years one would think a "bar tune" could be one of them. But I haven't found any evidence of that in my research. So where did this ugly rumor start and why is it still being spread? I have my theory. It probably started in the early years of the Christian Rock scene. The Christian rockers needed to justify their performances to a condemning "traditional" church so they came up with the "bar song" rumor. Their goal: turn the tables, present the "music is neutral argument" but give it a twist. So the precious hymns that everyone thought were born out of holiness were actually born out of iniquity? Could it be true? Well, I didn't do the research needed to examine all of the hymns, but I can say with a good amount of confidence that if it is true, it is for a select few hymns. Additionally, I highly doubt, our hymn writers would ever justify a lifestyle of sin by connecting with it's music.

The more interesting question to ask is Why is the rumor still being spread today? This is raiders of the lost church stuff. Think about this, back then it was spread by musicians outside the church attempting to justify what they were doing in auditoriums during the week in the name of Jesus. Today, it's spread by Pastors inside the church attempting to justify what they are doing in the house of God on Sunday in the name of Jesus. Notice the progression, hymnals gone - secular music in. Musicians spreading rumors - Pastors spreading rumors. Maybe I'll write a song, "Exit Fanny J. Crosby enter Axle Rose."

If the music stops my faith goes on. Hymnals or no hymnals my faith goes on. But it would be nice if our music was more hymn centered. Let's not underestimate the importance of them in teaching doctrine and expressing the thoughts of the truly converted. They are not the inspired words of God, but they are the words of lives changed by Him. If our churches were more hymn centered they would be more HIM centered. And there would also be no need for rumors.

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." - Colossians 3:16

The "There is no secular music" argument

2008-08-28T09:28:00.000-07:00

I think Rick Warren (there he is again) said it. Maybe you've heard this argument. Music is neutral. It's neither secular or sacred. Music is just a combination of notes and chords formed to make a melody or a rhythm. There is no evil and good music. There is no such thing as "Christian" music. The lyrics are what turn a song into secular or sacred. Well, this is relatively new argument being made mostly by those who are interested in drawing a crowd. To be frank, if someone agrees with this argument they know little about music and better yet sacred music. One would also have to question if they hold to any moral absolutes. As far as I am concerned the evidence is overwhelming, this is a myth.

Music is not neutral. Music has a message to be told regardless of any lyric attached to it. Please try to understand this point, music is a motivator. It motivates the human mind, soul and spirit. Don't believe me? Try this experiment. At the next wedding you attend watch what people do when the loud music and a strong beat starts. Under its power and influence they will start moving their bodies in some very strange ways. And I'm talking about Christian weddings here. They will move their bodies in ways they NEVER would in a church. Then watch what they do when the soft music starts. The strange movements stop, the bodies become gentle as lambs. It's not the words motivating. It is the music. Remember King Saul? Saul was troubled by an evil spirit. What did he do? He hired the services of a young musician to soothe his spirit. How about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego? They were instructed to bow down to the idol, WHEN THE MUSIC STARTS!!! And don't think for a moment that the music played in Babylon wasn't a key factor in motivating the entire nation to bow to the ground before a statue. I doubt they were all threatened with the fiery furnace. I'm sure King Nebuchadnezzar thought that one through. Music will motivate people to do some very strange things even things they don't want to do.

"I've now been sued by about 25 people who claim their kids committed suicide from listening to my music." -Ozzy Osbourne (Source -interview, Ozzy Meets Marilyn Manson, 1997)

There is a reason why these kids killed themselves to the music of Black Sabbath in the 1970's. Perhaps the lyrics had something to do with it, but of course THE MUSIC MOTIVATED THEM TO! So, how can we in good faith, bring this music into the house of God and call it neutral. God instructs us to worship Him with hymns and "spiritual" songs. There is nothing neutral about "spiritual", when directed to a Holy God. All other music doesn't belong in the house of God.

Ezekiel 26:13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more